TF2 Beta Suggestions

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Terwonick, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. Terwonick

    Terwonick L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Do you think a weapon needs to be added/changed, then this is the place for your idea!

    Play nice.

    alright, here's my idea(s)

    Beta Medigun

    +Can heal two targets at once
    -No Ubercharge

    think about it, really think. No uber is a big trade-off, but I've been told that a good medic can heal two targets with the QF, but this has an overheal. So you can keep two (or more) team-mates alive at once! Instead of having the "uber" button actually "uber" you, it would activate the second healing ray. In this way, the regular "heal" button would heal, and the "uber" button would heal a separate person. It would have the same heal rate for each heal ray.

    Beta Sticky Launcher (kinda wanna call it the Scottish Detonation)

    +No stickybomb detonation delay
    +50% max secondary ammo on wearer
    +30% faster firing speed
    +Detonates stickybombs near the crosshair and directly under your feet

    -2 stickybombs out
    -15% damage per stickbomb

    I was thinking of a complimentary explosive weapon for the ali baba wee booties when I thought of this one. I know personally I HATE playing demoknight, but I don't mind playing bootie, SR, ulapool caber, it's quite fun! This weapon would expand the demoman back out of the "demoknight" category it has fallen into.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  2. English Mobster

    English Mobster L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Do you have any idea how much focus it would take for a Medic to be able to heal 2 targets at once?
    They're stressed enough trying to keep up with one as it is. In pubs, they would just run away from the Medic, and the only place that could POSSIBLY see any use is in pugs.

    That being said, I also have ideas for crappy weapons:

    The Redistribution of Health

    (Heavy Melee)
    -50 health
    Does 50% damage compared to fists
    50% longer switch time.
    User takes 100% more damage from explosions when equipped

    30% of all incoming damage when equipped is given out as health to teammates in an AOE heal similar to the Amputator's taunt.

    The -50 health is there to make a Heavy with this weapon less useful in overall combat, and to reduce the amount of health Heavy could distribute overall. It would also stack with the -50 health from the Tomislav, keeping that from being terribly overpowered.
    The 50% damage makes helps to make it not a straight upgrade from fists.
    Longer switch time makes it so the Heavy has to overestimate how quickly he's losing health if he wants to switch to a Sandvich to keep himself alive. It also will add more time before his minigun would spin up, preventing him from becoming a monster too quickly.
    Taking double explosion damage reduces the effectiveness of a Heavy/Medic team going in against a Sentry nest/Somewhat decent Soldier/Demoman. This (in theory) should allow these objects to kill the Heavy quickly enough to prevent him from making his entire team too hard to kill when combined with a Medic.
    An alternative to the +100% damage would be all damage taken is mini-crits.
    30% damage is converted to health rather than the Milkman's 60% is there to keep it from being overpowered. A headshot on an overhealed Heavy would give all nearby teammates 113 health rather than 226 health, enough to make a difference in the fight and possibly allow the Medic to get out of there, but at the expense of losing a Heavy and his AOE heal. 30% was chosen due to it being the amount of extra damage granted by a mini-crit, canceling out the effects of a Buff Banner or group Jarate from the other side.
    Another, more general downside is the loss of Heavy's damage output. Since the AOE heal only comes into effect when the weapon is equipped, that Heavy won't be putting pressure on in the fight, instead throwing himself out as a true "bullet sponge", trying to absorb as many bullets as possible for his teammates and thus keep them alive.

    A Heavy without a Medic would give any nearby teammates 75 health before he went down (effectively overhealing a Medic, and giving a Scout the HP of a Soldier). A properly-timed Sandvich could add 38 health to that number, assuming the unlikely scenario where the Heavy takes no damage during switch, drop, and switch back.
    Tomislav Heavy with no Medic would give out 60 health (+30 with Sandvich).

    This is potentially a very overpowered weapon, hence all the nerfs. Hopefully, this could allow a Heavy to provide cover for a team on the retreat, or soak up bullets and heal a team making a push.
    One has to consider Heavy's slow movement speed, however, slowing down a push and only allowing limited retreat coverage.
    He could also be used defensively to keep a batch of defenders alive. Splash damage from spam would be deadly, but Heavy's overall staying power would theoretically translate to an improved staying power for his teammates. Hitscan fire is best directed away from the Heavy and onto his teammates, while explosions and Sniper fire should be concentrated onto the Heavy to kill him quickly and thus not prolong the amount of health he would give.
  3. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

    Positive Ratings:
    2 additional misc slots.
    Reskins for every weapon.
    Unusualler hats.
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  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Positive Ratings:
    Make the Black Box self heal relative to damage done. 1-45=5, 45-90=10, 90+=15. Or a more gradual ramp up for each hit point.
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  5. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Positive Ratings:
  6. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Positive Ratings:
    I didn't realize til now that you and trotim posted that :p
  7. Sel

    Sel Banned

    Positive Ratings:
    my trotim is a professional modelist
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  8. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

    Positive Ratings:
    If we have to have new weapons in the game, they need to be toned down.
    They can have a powerful mechanic, but it shouldn't be completely nuts, and make the exchange for accessing that mechanic a fair trade-off.

    So if we look at the scout, and pick one weapon.
    The Soda Popper: The "hype" is insane, it charges up by traveling 5200 units (spawn to mid on granary). That is 15-20 seconds? and the mini-crits last for 8 seconds. And if you just switch to another weapon while you're "hype" is 95-99% filled you more or less have mini-crit on demand.
    These minicrits allow the scout to do 100-110 dmg on mid range, and up towards 140-150 on point blank, PER SHOT, FOR 8 SECONDS.
    If you think this is balanced, see a doctor, you might have severe brain damage.

    The stats on the tooltip are also misleading, as the "+25% reload speed" compares to FaN reload speed, while the "+50% firing speed" compares to the Scattergun firing speed.

    Looking only at the number statistics (and not special abilities) it's superior or equal to the FaN on every point except base damage where it's behind by 5 (60 vs 65), which is nothing. Especially when the SP reloads faster.
    The Hype is far better than Knockback of the FaN, and the "no random crits" on the SP is stupid, as I said, you have minicrits on demand.

    How can it be fixed: Since the hype is the gimmick here, it needs to stay in some shape or form. The Hype should always charge, not just when the weapon is out. The time to charge it should be longer, and the mini-crits duration should be cut in half at least.
    Lower the upfront damage per shot (to reduce the deadliness of the minicrits), either by lowering base damage per pellet, or reducing the amount of pellets.

    And for both FaN and SP, GET that reload animation off my crosshair!

    The candy cane: Are you kidding me? This thing makes everything you kill drop healthpacks? Kills with any weapon?! AAAAaaaaa
    And the supposedly fair drawback is that you take even more damage from an already lethal explosion. Or that it takes just 2 rockets instead of 2 and a shotgun blast.

    Fix: Don't make it drop healthpacks at all, just remove this entire concept from the game.
    Small healthpacks are too powerful depending on who picks these "kill rewards" up, a heavy gets 60 hp. For this weapon to work, you need to only award the scout, and only when he actually uses the cane to kill.
    Directly heal the scout on a successful cane kill.
    replace the explosion vulnerability (as it makes no sense) with -X% health from healers on wearer.

    I could do this all night. And my "fixes" are only suggestions, I don't claim to know how to balance these things with theory-craft, but I can at least point out what is broken and not working in game right now with a decent level of accuracy.
    The main point here is that a lot of weapons have stupid mechanics that shouldn't work like they do. And other (most) weapons are too powerful compared to the default (and the first sets of unlocks) and are culprits of the power creep. Every small incremental step of power in each wave of items may not seem like much, but once you look at a specific item objectively you realize just how deadly they're becoming.
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  9. Terwonick

    Terwonick L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    The SP is overpowered, I agree.
  10. lana

    aa lana Currently On: ?????

    Positive Ratings:
    Scout fixes:
    Reduce the duration of the mini-crit boost on the Soda Popper, and make it only apply to the Soda Popper.
    Reduce the damage per pellet on the Shortstop to 9.
    Increase the duration of crit-a-cola.
    Increase the clip size of the Winger.
    Hitting a high fiving player with the Unarmed Combat should do something special.
    Let the Scout use the Ullapool Caber.

    Soldier fixes:
    Reduce the damage of the Liberty Launcher.
    Increase the air acceleration of players using the Mantreads.
    Fix the kill icons for dueling with the Half Zaitoichi.
    Make the Equalizer never crit.

    Pyro fixes:
    Cause any pyros to take a constant 6 damage per second.

    Demoman fixes:
    Remove the +25% self damage on the Loch'n'Load, and replace it with -25% ammo carried.
    Let the Caber deal critical hits.
    Reduce the amount of health healed from ammo for the Persian Persuader, and let Demomen pick up ammo again.

    Heavy fixes:
    Reduce the number of bullets fired from the Tomislav per shot to 2 or 1.
    Make the Dalokoh's droppable as a small medkit.
    Picking up your own Sandvich or Steak should refill your food meter, not heal you.
    Make the GRU reduce the rate of medic healing.

    Engineer fixes:
    Perfect - don't fucking touch him.

    Medic fixes:
    Increase the movement speed bonus of the overdose, but reduce the user's speed by 5%.
    Reduce the damage of the Ubersaw, or prevent it from giving critical hits.
    Allow users to hold ubercharge with the Vitasaw up to 40%.
    Give the Solemn Vow a downside.

    Sniper fixes:
    Give me a high five for scoring a headshot on three heavies at the same time with the Machina. B)
    Increase the damage of the Submachine Gun to 9.
    Make the Bushwacka reduce speed by 10%.

    Spy fixes:
    Change the cloak time increase on the Enforcer so that it takes longer to decloak.
    Rename Your Eternal Reward to You're Eternal Reward.
    Add the Riki's Dagger promotional item.
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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  11. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Positive Ratings:
    No no no, better! If you have it equipped, doing the high five taunt should involve holding the Unarmed Combat instead of your own hand!

    I'm guessing you're not a big fan of the pyro.

    Works for me.

    This seems pointless, since if you have them out you're supposed to have a medic pocketing you anyway to negate the self-damage. So either it's enough to counteract that, and it's working properly, or it isn't.

    Seems a bit much. I noticed that it's already weighted so that it holds a higher percentage of your charge the less charge you have.

    Oh lord yes. When I first saw the "Do No Harm" description, I thought maybe it was unusable as a weapon. Which sounded fine to me considering how powerful its benefit is.

    Amputator needs a downside too. Preferably something that's completely moot in Medieval Mode, like most of the other newer melee weapons.

    If they ever add more achievements for the newer weapons, this needs to be one.
  12. English Mobster

    English Mobster L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Your Eternal Reward is the correct grammar.
    You Are Eternal Reward doesn't make any goddamn sense.
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  13. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Positive Ratings:

    all -50 hp downside (no health drain for gru)

    yayaya, kinda bad
  14. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

    Positive Ratings:
    Yes it does.
    Killing people gives you disguises.

    "You're eternal reward."
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  15. Mr. Wimples

    Mr. Wimples L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Caber should do no damage to enemies and make user explode in a spectacular fashion.

    People would still use it.
  16. English Mobster

    English Mobster L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    But you aren't eternal reward. There's no article there.
    You're an Eternal Reward could possibly work, but that still doesn't make much sense.

    Your Eternal Reward (I'm assuming) refers to the death of the victim, "Eternal Reward" meaning heaven. By being killed by the knife, they are getting their eternal reward.

    Fake edit: Ah, yes. According to the wiki, the polycount pack it was a part of had references to "Diamond in the Rough" and "Phenomenal Cosmic Power" as well. All of these (plus "Your Eternal Reward") are quotes from the Disney movie Aladdin, when Jafar (in disguise) tries to stab Aladdin with a dagger.
    The entire quote:
    "And now you shall have your reward... *Takes out dagger* ...your ETERNAL reward."
    Saying that it is you are eternal reward doesn't make any goddamn sense.

    Funny, I always noticed that was a quote from Aladdin (my family's a bunch of huge Disney fans), but I chalked it up to coincidence.
  17. lana

    aa lana Currently On: ?????

    Positive Ratings:
    "Here's your reward boy, you're eternal reward."

    Fake Edit:

    Also the scene in question wasn't Jafar trying to stab Aladdin. It was Aladdin escaping from the Cave of Wonders when disguised Jafar grabs his hand and refuses to pull him up until he gives him the lamp. When Aladdin does, Jafar removes his disguise and drops him, saying the line.

    I know a lot about Aladdin.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  18. TheKieranator

    TheKieranator L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
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  19. English Mobster

    English Mobster L6: Sharp Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Thank you. I was going to post that same video in my last post, but decided not to for whatever reason.
    Go to 0:30 in. Watch him take out the dagger and remove his disguise. He only drops Aladdin because Abu bit him. He had every intention of stabbing Aladdin.

    And that grammar STILL ISN'T RIGHT GODDAMNIT. You're is a contraction: YOU ARE. Remove the A and replace it with an apostrophe to shorten those two words to one: YOU'RE.
    "Here's your reward boy, you're eternal reward."
    "Here's your reward boy, you are eternal reward."
    Now, tell me: would you say "You are eternal reward?"

    You have it correct in the first independent clause of that sentence (which is a run-on, technically, since it has two independent clauses strung together with only a comma. Correct grammar would separate those words with a hyphen or ellipsis, not a comma): "Here's your reward, boy..."
    The second independent clause mirrors the first, with the word "boy" dropped for redundancy (the person being spoken to has not changed) and the word "eternal" added in to provide another layer of meaning:
    "...your eternal reward."
    If I combined the parallel structuring into the second clause (The contraction "Here's", or "Here is", has been changed into its longer form for clarity):
    "[Here is] your eternal reward."
    Lastly, let's add in the unstated objective of the sentence, in case I can't make myself clear enough:
    "[Here is] your eternal reward [for getting me the lamp]."
    You would NOT say "Here is you are eternal reward for getting me the lamp," which is what "Here's you're eternal reward for getting me the lamp" amounts to if you add back in all the contractions.

    My grandmother's an English teacher. I get to grade high school freshman essays all day long whenever I drop by to visit. I'm a Creative Writing minor, I've been reading since preschool, and I've written an (unpublished) novel and a (near-published) play being put on by a local high school in the spring.
    You do NOT want to get into a debate with me about proper grammar. :p
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2011
  20. gamemaster1996

    gamemaster1996 L13: Stunning Member

    Positive Ratings:
    Guys please it's just a name for a gun that nobody cares about XD