KotH swamp

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Anreol, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Anreol

    Anreol L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    262
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    First of all i cancelled the map... because its so bad... and i cant rework it.
    Thanks everyone for the comments, it will help me in the future





    Hello everyone!
    This is my first map made on Hammer, so... well... its... its broken...

    -There not respawn zones (So if you change class you die)
    -No respawn room protection (Well, the doors fix that problem a little bit)
    -Unfinished (FOR SOME REASON IS ALPHA)

    +Respawns for both teams. (Maybe... someone respawn just on the middle on the map if i forgot to delete some respawn points)
    +Resupply closets
    +The Control point works perfectly (15 secs to cap if i remember)

    Its a map with the theme of a swamp (you didn't saw the filename?)

    Tell me how I can improve the map... how to use Hammer (I already know the basics)

    Ideas:
    Make an high zone with a forest , waterfall and maybe a town.
    Improve accuracy

    Assets used:
    Swamp Theme pack
    Respective Items for BLU and RED http://tf2.gamebanana.com/prefabs/6756

    English is not my native language... sorry
    (So i translated it with google)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  2. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

    Messages:
    1,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,010
    Those look like some pretty absurd sightlines. Snipers would have a field day on this map.
     
  3. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

    Messages:
    2,387
    Positive Ratings:
    4,220
    Yeah, you can see all the way across the map. That's not a good thing.
     
  4. Lenny

    Lenny L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    90
    Positive Ratings:
    35
    Okay, there's a lot of issues with this map. Which is fine, because after all, this is an alpha. But there are some really, really bad things that you should address as soon as possible.

    The first thing is that there is no skybox. The skybox is a big hollow box that surrounds the entire map that gives it a distance texture. Your map right now looks like this. You might think that's fine, but when you move your cursor, it does this, which makes it really, really hard to see where you're going.

    The second issue is that you have way, way too much water. Water-based maps aren't as fun as people claim they are - read yyler's awesome guide as to why. Also, you don't have player clips on the very edge of the water, so you can go outside the map. And that's terrifying.

    Another huge issue is that your map isn't symmetrical. This might not seem important, but you need to understand that symmetry is an important element of balance. If the map is too favored towards one team, people just want to play on that team to win, and that's not very fun. You need to make the map equal on both sides. (This is especially evident with the RED team having a functional second spawn, and BLU not.)

    You've also made it so you can walk on top of each team's spawn, and there are full health and ammo packs behind each spawn room. That's terrible because it encourages people spawn camping: basically, one of the teams is trapped in their spawn and the other is holding so far forward they don't care about the objective anymore. That isn't fun for everyone. I really recommend removing the full health and ammo kits and making the spawn impossible to walk on top of.

    The final huge issue is SIGHTLINES. This is a problem for almost every newbie map maker.
    In this screenshot, you can see that I can see the enemy team's spawn room door. However, I'm standing right outside my spawn. This means the map becomes incredibly Sniper-dominant, and Sniper is already one of the most powerful classes in the game. Nobody wants to walk outside of spawn just to get headshot from all the way across the map and respawn.

    Those are the biggest issues with the map. Those are the ones you should pay the most attention to. Please don't be discouraged, this is to help you.

    Smaller issues:
    re the respawn rooms: coat the room in the func_respawnroom brush entity. This will allow players to change class without dying.
    The control point sinks into the ground a little bit. It should be raised up a few notches, but it's nothing gamebreaking.
    The spilled crate in the house is hollow. You can walk through it.
    The doors for each respawn room are badly placed in their own ways: The RED door is a few inches off the ground, the BLU one has a crack on the left side.
    Your health and ammo kits outside spawn are both way too close to spawn and way too close to each other. Also, I'm not sure why you have small health on one side of the point and small ammo on the other (remember, symmetry!)

    However, you did well with the control point. The timing is pretty fair and it works properly, so good job there. And hey, you made a map in the first place, so that already means you're making progress. Just keep at it and I know you'll make great maps one day.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

    Messages:
    2,387
    Positive Ratings:
    4,220
    I haven't actually played on the map, but I'm noticing that the map has a skybox in the screenshots. Is it a custom skybox that simply hasn't been packed?
     
  6. Lenny

    Lenny L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    90
    Positive Ratings:
    35
  7. Anreol

    Anreol L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    262
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    Well, first of all, thanks.
    I will fix everything i can, (First of all the skybox, because its just rename the skybox file. I think that the packer scanned it and automatically set inside the .bps)
    Replace the 3D skybox with the 2D one. (The 3D is just like add props outside the map)
    Add more fog? It will fix a little bit the Snipers problem and the optimization...

    The ammo and health packs are team filtered... Well, if you think that i should delete it... OK.
    I don't even know how to set invisible walls, like on other maps (That purple thing if you use r_drawclipbrushes 2. It is a skybox texture?)

    I don't had time to update BLU...
    Also... to mirror the map i used Copy/Paste... I must delete the BLU part, finish the RED part, and then Copy/Paste, change textures, etc...?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  8. killohurtz

    aa killohurtz Distinction in Applied Carving

    Messages:
    1,005
    Positive Ratings:
    1,157
    You don't need to do this, the normal 3D skybox texture will work fine without the small-scale stuff outside the map. Just leave the texture as is and add the props later.

    Yes, fog is one solution to this problem, but ideally your map should be designed so that you don't have to resort to this. Look at how official KotH maps are structured; there are always buildings or some kind of cover between the spawns and the point to break up the map.

    While there is an option to team-filter health and ammo pickups, no official maps use it.

    This is done with clip textures.

    We can't properly test your map until you do this. Don't rush to publish your map if it's not fully playable; you ALWAYS have time!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Anreol

    Anreol L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    262
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    I will try that in the next version both teams will have the SAME spawn, just when i think that RED spawn is finished, will Copy Pasterino, and change textures.
    And about the time, yes i have all the time of the world, but i uploaded in that moment because i got everything ready to upload, and when i publish it, was 1:30 on my country, so... i need sleep too!

    And about the sightlines... i almost don't have any idea how to fix it. (Excepting the fog, that helps with optimization at the same time)
    Well, I have the idea of ​​a spire tower to remove view. (like the badlands one... https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Badlands5.png)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  10. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

    Messages:
    1,246
    Positive Ratings:
    1,010
    This is not currently in a state that I'd say is ready to bother uploading, though. You could have just as easily waited until the next day and made sure that everything was functional and THEN uploaded your map.

    The fog seems like a rather hacksaw solution to the problem. Silhouettes can still be seen against the fog, so it doesn't really do much to penalize snipers.

    Honestly, at this point, the best advice I can give you is not to design your map by creating a cube and scattering stuff around it. Create an interesting layout with your map geometry itself.