Suggestion on gamedays and messing around

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by PenPen, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. PenPen

    PenPen L5: Dapper Member

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    I'd just like to suggest that while TF2 is a fun game for all, in gameday it should mean something slightly different.

    Gamedays are more focused on testing the map on how it plays and finding balancing issues, and whatnot. To me, finding exploits is okay since it's about letting what the mapmaker missed out (not sure what everyone's view is on that).

    But messing around with the gameplay shouldn't be allowed, at least on gamedays. By that I mean something like, changing gravity, shifting team colors and turning on friendly fire, that sort of thing. It won't help in giving feedback to the mapmaker, and to the mapmaker, it feels like you are not respecting his work.

    Unfortunately I can't find another way to speak in a more eloquent manner, sorry if I somehow offended someone who feels otherwise. Just my $0.02.
     
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  2. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    I agree. Though I haven't been on a gameday where those settings are changed, it would be hell to test the map properly. If I wanted my map testing out and then I see loads of scouts double jumping to unreachable areas, or such I'd complain a little in the gameday thread or to an admin, and submit my map for next weeks, which is annoying to have to wait another week to get necessary feedback before you can update the map and repeat the process agian.

    I know I'd like to know about bugs in my map, and I'm sure most people post pictures of the bugs they find. Even if I know the bug exsists, it's nice to know people want to help.
     
  3. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    Let me add that, once you find a bug, for the love of god, leave it the fuck alone.

    It's extremely irritating when someone finds a gamebreaking bug and downright invalidates the rest of the testing time by exploiting it to hell and back. This isn't good. It's cool that you found a bug, but once you determined it, you're just wasting testing time and stopping other people from discovering further issues with the map (most likely balance issues).

    It's equally irritating when people find a useless bug and proceed to much around with it pointlessly instead of helping their team. The same issue as above arises, you're crippling your team, making it much harder to determine if something happened due to game balance, or because 1/2/4 guys from one team were too busy banging their heads on a wall causing their team to be crippled even if the map was perfectly balanced.


    So yeah, TF2 is not srz bznz. But the map creators need legitimate feedback on how their map plays under normal circumstances. Get it together.
     
  4. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    Oh also, it'd be nice if the teams weren't spammed with more than 3 of a class too, especialy when the teams are around 4v4. I had no feedback from a test not so long ago where most people had left, and it ended up with 3 pyros and 2 scouts vs 3 of us, with 1 being afk.
     
  5. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    I haven't had any experienced like that, but yes: If you find an obvious bug (or the mapper says he'll fix a certain jump) take a note or screenshot and then leave it alone.
     
  6. drp

    aa drp

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    when and who did this during gameday? (i'll assume it was today's gameday where this happened?)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  7. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    lolz...what gameday were people messing with those settings?
    I also haven't seen it during a gameday, occasionally during the random tests.

    Also, I like to do a vote before I change any dramatic settings
     
  8. PenPen

    PenPen L5: Dapper Member

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    Well, Nova was fooling around with the colors in gameday, which confused the other team, until a few players told him to stop doing that.

    There was also this time where we were testing someone's map a few weeks ago and someone else changed the visibility of the players to zero, which made everyone invisible.
     
  9. Waif

    Waif L7: Fancy Member

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    Also things like class stacking are annoying, whilst they can prove a point it can be a bit annoying and waste of testing time, take for example red engi/sentry stacking on an a/d map.

    Perhaps put a limit of four per class?
     
  10. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Yeah, because it became 2v1 as the entire server emptied and then stayed that way for long enough...
     
  11. BrokenTripod

    BrokenTripod L5: Dapper Member

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    The problem with setting class limits is that once your map is released it won't have class limits.

    If we test and there's 1 of every class and it plays perfectly, that doesn't mean your map is balance or works perfectly. It just means that we're not testing the fact that you have 3 ideal sentry positions that are impossible to take out, no matter how many ubers you get.

    As testing goes on, you really begin to notice people changing classes based on what they think is ideal for the situation. For example, on Chrono's map (??) a bunch of snipers appeared and started firing around at/near the enemy's spawn, highlighting how big of a sightline there was. If we limited the number of snipers, there's a chance that some crappy player would go sniper and ignore this area. Once the map was released, it would become sniper spawn camp alley.

    Something something. I don't know what else I wanted to address.

    Oh, I'll just throw out this one drop of wisdom, though: If people tell you through feedback to fix something in your map (a bug or a door that opens far too slowly for example), FIX IT in your next revision. There was a map that didn't get fixed even though everyone brought it to the mapmaker's attention, and at that point it was just frustrating. If it's a simple bug and all it takes is changing a few values, do that FIRST and TEST it to make sure it works before you release it to us again, otherwise our feedback feels useless, so we screw around with the same problem in your map to highlight it.

    Yep.

    And I agree that we probably shouldn't be changing values and things, but if everyone looks like they're suddenly having fun on your map and they weren't earlier...I'd say you should reevaluate how fun your map is for BOTH sides. (And I don't necessarily mean just attack and defense, I mean winning and losing teams should feel like they're having fun!)

    Think that's all I've got to say.
     
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  12. PenPen

    PenPen L5: Dapper Member

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    Yeah, class limits shouldn't be set - basically what BrokenTripod said, if your map is unintentionally designed as a sniperfest, then it will become apparent to the mapmaker that it IS a sniperfest during gameday. Making class limits will hinder the info conveyed to the mapmaker.

    I guess the only workaround for that is to ask people if they're willing to switch to another class during play.