Structure vs detail: post your screenshots

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Shmitz, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    A conversation in the steam chat got me thinking it might be interesting if people posted screenshots of their maps minus all of the details and such that don't affect visibility, showing just the basic underlying structure. There might be some interesting comparisons to make on level construction.

    To get a good hammer screenshot of your map's structure, do the following:
    1. Find a good spot to take a picture of and make your 3d view large enough for a good shot.
    2. Click the "Auto" tab in your visgroups sidebar.
    3. Uncheck "Tool Brushes", "Entities", and "World Detail".
    4. Open up the "World Geometry" group and uncheck "Displacements"
    5. Set the 3d view to "3d Flat"
    6. Hit your print screen key and paste it into an image editor.
    7. Recheck "World Detail".
    8. Set the 3d view to one of the Textured settings.
    9. Take another screenshot.

    I'll get it started:

    Outside in cp_science2:
    [​IMG]

    Backyard (point C) in cp_roswell:
    [​IMG]

    Courtyard area (point A) in cp_roswell:
    [​IMG]

    Feed storage area (point B) in cp_roswell:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    cp_bloodstained:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Vilepickle

    Vilepickle L7: Fancy Member

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    A few that are decent:

    Castle
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Impact
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  4. phatal

    phatal L6: Sharp Member

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    My level is only half way done, if that, but my center room is mostly complete. I guess because of my custom visgroups my ss's look different as far as what's included so I did as you asked for the first one (with custom visgroups active), then I did second ss with groups disabled as requested, and the 3rd ss is everything turned on.

    3D FLAT
    [​IMG]

    REQUESTED GROUPS REMOVED
    [​IMG]

    ALL GROUPS
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    Why do you have brushes inside that archdisplacement?
     
  6. phatal

    phatal L6: Sharp Member

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    *brainfart* It's a displacement it's meant to be bent. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2008
  7. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    Doesn't this remove the displacements from view? I can understand brushes behind displacements to seal the map, but this is in the middle. Maybe I'm being stupid, who knows :blink:
     
  8. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    You're right Koei. That screenshot shows that there are brushes (presumably nodraw) inside those displacements. I don't think it's necessary to have them there when they don't have to seal the world or block backlighting. If there is a reason to have them there, they should still probably be detail brushes, since they're not really blocking visibility.
     
  9. Vilepickle

    Vilepickle L7: Fancy Member

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    Actually, in some cases they can help vis drastically. If you look at the Impact middle screenshot, I have a nodraw brush in the middle where the hill is. Without it, the entire other base ramproom was being drawn from the other team's ramproom. With it, the vis stops there and I get a much better experience.
     
  10. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Displacements do not block visibility.
     
  11. Koei

    Koei L4: Comfortable Member

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    Yes, I know. And I understand that putting brushes inside them can help performance (big hills, walls, rocks etc). But I don't know how it would help in this case :)
     
  12. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    when I put them in I thought that they'd actually help with cutting up vis but upon reflection I doubt they are doing anything at all. I may aswell remove them.
     
  13. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Yeah, but in your case you have an expansive nodraw brush that is blocking vis between two doorways. For a thin archway off to the side, I don't think they benefit performance any.

    I'm just trying to make sure there's no confusion about nodraws behind displacements. There's no rule stating they have to be there. The usual reasons you would have them are to seal the world or to prevent light (usually from the sky) from casting light through the back of the displacement. This is function following form. In your screenshot, it's more form following function. It's the difference between making a displacement and putting a nodraw brush behind it, and making a nodraw brush and wrapping a displacement around it.
     
  14. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    What a great idea, thanks guys for taking the time to post these. It sparked a new idea idea I want to try. Sometimes, I forget to think of the baby steps before I get caught up in the details.
     
  15. phatal

    phatal L6: Sharp Member

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    I wasn't thinking when I responded with that. I had a brain fart, I was thinking about the view withing hammer for displacements. :p
     
  16. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

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    The rule of thumb I use for nodraw behind displacements: if you were to use plain brushes instead of displacements for this feature, would you make them func_detail? If so, don't put a nodraw behind.
     
  17. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    well this turned into a discussion of my displacement technique... I'm gunna put it right now.
    I took some pictures with mat_fullbright 2 on and I find them most interesting:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Bump, it would be good to see some other people's maps for comparison....
     
  19. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    =( would do mine, but with the exception of the floor, its all func_detail =p
     
  20. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    8 month bump! woo go me :thumbup:

    Since this is a pretty awesome thread I thought I'd do a new comparison for it from Devil's half-acre:

    [​IMG]