KotH Stockpile A4

[chuckster]

koth_stockpile_a1 - Warehouse in the middle of nowhere.

Red and Blu have yet again been launched into a seemingly eternal battle, this time for a warehouse in the middle of the artic. Whatever is in those cargo crates must be good.

 

[chuckster]

Things to fix in A1a:

• Rouge nodraw texture in small sideroom next to main CP.

• Broken Blu spawn door (3rd, in small hallway).

• Broken Blu spawn room visualiser (1st door, right hand side).

Things to expect in A2:

• Actual displacements (No more placeholders).

• Sewer system? New route to CP (Unsure, dependent on layout feedback)?

• Cubemaps.

 

[n8five484]

You should put this in the imp map list.

 

[chuckster]

You should put this in the imp map list.

Definitely on my list of things to do. I just need to push out A1a and then I’m all set. My PC is currently under repair however so I cannot push out A1a until Friday (Two days away Australian time).

You’ll definitely see it up there in no time.

 

[iiboharz]

Make sure you get some HDR settings in there before you do!

 

[n8five484]

Yeah, cut down on the amount of lights you have, put minimal lighting where lighting is needed

 

[Yrr]

why is this map 90% shipping containers

 

[chuckster]

why is this map 90% shipping containers

Do you mean that in a bad way? I thought it made interesting height variation. I would love to hear your thoughts, and if required I’d be more than happy to cut down.

 

[Mess About]

Do you mean that in a bad way? I thought it made interesting height variation. I would love to hear your thoughts, and if required I’d be more than happy to cut down.

it's not about the geometry, but your prop usage. Spamming one kind of prop throughout your map is bad idea, cause it'll make your map looks boring. Try to replace some of the containers with something else, like crates, wooden boxes or barrels; and some kind of structures, buildings, to make your map looks more interesting.

take a look at the official maps, you'll see how they mix all those up and make their map more appealing and less repetitive

 

[chuckster]

it's not about the geometry, but your prop usage. Spamming one kind of prop throughout your map is bad idea, cause it'll make your map looks boring. Try to replace some of the containers with something else, like crates, wooden boxes or barrels; and some kind of structures, buildings, to make your map looks more interesting.

take a look at the official maps, you'll see how they mix all those up and make their map more appealing and less repetitive

I see where you’re coming from, but this is A1. My main goal here was to use only the bear minimum of props and overlays. The cargo crate was one of them.

Do not worry, it won’t all just be cargo crates, and also don’t worry, I’ll definitely be cutting down on them as you’re definitely right about it being overkill. Thanks for the feedback guys!

 

[AlexEatDonut]

About the overuse of containers, i can see in the screenshots that some are cut half way in the ground. Please avoid doing that, use brushes instead, as it looks...wrong.

 

[chuckster]

About the overuse of containers, i can see in the screenshots that some are cut half way in the ground. Please avoid doing that, use brushes instead, as it looks...wrong.

I did use brushes. I used the clipping tool to make a suitable hole for the cargo crates to slot into.

 

[AlexEatDonut]

So i ran around your map a bit.
First of all, the name of the file has "_backup" after the iteration string (a1), i don't know why, i guess you forgot to remove it or something.
Secondly, the map looks really... boring, there is only containers, EVERYWHERE, no variety, nothing. Secondly, it's at night time, and it's also boring, sunlight would be more desireable and could allow you to not use a lot of light entities by making roofs a toolskybox (like i did recently), you could also replace the dark grey dev floor with the white-esque grid dev texture.
There is a bit of z fighting on the cargos, not that bad, but still a thing, and the framing of doors are really large, make them take less space in the doorway, even if the wall is 16 units thick, make the frames thinner, it will create more space to move around.
But i was more or so shocked by this :

(Now note that the screenshot were taken with mat_fullbright on.)
Why is this a thing ? I won't go over it longer, but in the imp, expect unhappy gamers complaining.
Another thing is the lack of any pickups around the point, i know that pickups are supposed to be far from the point, but it's too extreme, i could find only one healthkit and i was suprised yet again :

The overlay is red, like ammo pickups, it's not good as if i play the map, and the pickup has been already used, i could think that red = ammo, and i would be waiting for ammo while heath spawns... point is, it is recommanded to use either white or blue patchs for healthkits.
Now i have a personnal problem, and it's that i consider a map good if we can access every routes without jumping, so you could say i was having a heart attack when i saw this :

Now there is 2 problems, : you have to jump and it looks...bad. Make it a ramp, or better, a displacement (google's your friend, 3kliksphilip made a usefull tutorial if interested).
Finally, there is a wall that is having an existential crysis :

It is on both sides.
And i think that's all i saw, please don't take my feedback negatively, i'm trying to help, even though i use rough words, it's not a personnal attack or anything. Have a nice day and get mapping.

 

[chuckster]

Thanks for your reply! A lot of the issues you’ve mentioned have been pointed out by me. That rouge nodraw texture, I recall mentioning the placeholder displacements, ect.

Another thing is the lack of any pickups around the point

There is a small ammo kit behind the pillars in the main warehouse. In the sniper access sideroom is a medium health kit, in the room across from that is a small health kit and a medium ammo (If I recall correctly), in the 2nd courtyard near the highest cargo crate is a small health kit, in the left most corridor from spawn is a medium ammo kit.

Secondly, the map looks really... boring, there is only containers, EVERYWHERE, no variety

Definitely something I’m working on. I think I stated above somewhere that the cargo crates were a bit overkill and that there needed to be more prop variety.

the framing of doors are really large

I thought I had overscaled them! Thanks for the confirmation.

it's at night time, and it's also boring

Super interesting opinion. I was going for a sort of Doublecross style but now that I think about it that may fit. I just didn’t want that generic daytime desert theme, but I can get behind your reasons.

please don't take my feedback negatively, i'm trying to help, even though i use rough words, it's not a personnal attack or anything

Not at all! This is extremely useful, and just what I needed. Thanks for your input!

 

[chuckster]

Hello all! I have been listening to all of your feedback, and have since made numerous changes to account for this. Here is a comprehensive list of the things I have changed and added in this update:

• Prop Variety: One of the main pieces of feedback I have recieved is that my map was too boring with its props and needed more than just shipping containers. I have sprinkled numerous different props around the map, including crates, barrel palettes and various other props. Let me know if any more adjustments need to be made.
• Proper Pickup Overlays: Yes, I fixed them. Health now has blue patches and ammo now has red. Rejoice.
• Displacements: Finally, no more blocky snow! Well, we think it's snow. It might not be. Who knows, we could be standing on millions and millions of kilograms of Potassium Chloride!
• Capture Zone Indication: People wanna know where they can cap, now they can.
• Minor Texture and Geometry Fixes: Say goodbye to that annoying out of place nodraw texture! And I've polished up the textures for Blu and Red's respective sides as well as some troubling geometry.

The next update will probably arrive sometime this weekend. I'll give you a few teasers: Rooftops! Cubemaps! Higher skybox! Sewers...?

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[AlexEatDonut]

Higher skybox!

It good and all to have higher skyxoes, but it's not usefull. Most official maps uses player clips to avoid having players jump in the stratosphere. It's good to be limited, but it fells wrong when you hit your head in a blatant roof.

 

[chuckster]

Yes, you read that right! The containers are gone! Well, most of them. I kept in a very small amount of them that had a major impact on gameplay. Don't worry, most of them are gone. Here's a list of the changes this update:

• Almost 90% of the containers are gone: Need I say more?
• Psuedo-Detailing: I felt like my map needed that extra kick, you know? I've scattered about a few industrial panels and computer consoles.
• Major Geometry Changes: You'll notice that the main warehouse has changed dramatically. The sniper balcony has been revamped and there is now a wall. You'll also notice changes in the sniper balcony access room and side rooms.
• Height Variation: I fixed it! The sniper balcony now clocks in at 256 Hammer units and will not hurt you if you walk off. Hooray! I have also fixed up a few doors and lowered them.
• Improved Displacements: I managed to find some time to fix up the displacements and smooth them out. They look a lot more natural now.

You might notice I haven't done anything I teased in the previous version. That's because I don't have enough feedback on the layout to start transforming it. As for the skyboxes, I'll get there. And cubemaps.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[AlexEatDonut]

So here i go again, i went around and spotted a few things :

Frames are still too large, i'll go over it later


There is a big sight line, i think you should change not the middle but the doorways and the open areas, and don't put doors that open and closes, i say that from a recent personnal experience.
There is also a few places where toolskybox textures causes see-through :


So i decided to decompile your map to try to change somethings, like thinner frames, frames that are 8 units thin looks like this :

I also made them func_details, but i haven't done all of the frames.
When goind in hammer i noticed the displacements :

When you do your displacements, try to do some consistent displacement, for exemple, do displacement of 256 units by 256 units, power of 2, even if it gets in the walls and floors, do it, you'll then be able to sew the displacement to not have holes in the joints of the displacements.
Finally, i thought i would do a higher point, where the players capturing are exposed, but it's your choice.

So here is a link to doawnload the vmf i used to edit the map is you are interested :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/6x62blqbvgwvwj8/koth_stockpile_a3_d.vmf/file

 

[chuckster]

So here is a link to doawnload the vmf i used to edit the map is you are interested :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/6x62blqbvgwvwj8/koth_stockpile_a3_d.vmf/file

Wow, super interesting. I'll take a look at it now.

There is a big sight line

Not sure how I missed that, nice find.

There is also a few places where toolskybox textures causes see-through

Been completely aware of this one since day 1. As it is Alpha, I'm not exactly focusing on things like that. Might change if needed though.

Frames are still too large, i'll go over it later

Right. I did decrease some of the frames in terms of height, but I'm assuming you want thinner frames?

Thanks for all the feedback. In terms of this new version, what do you think? Is the removal of the crates a breath of fresh air?

 

[AlexEatDonut]

In terms of this new version, what do you think? Is the removal of the crates a breath of fresh air?

Some places feels empty, these places are where you should put pickups or props like these computers you did put in some places.