Steam workshop

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by infectedfury, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. infectedfury

    infectedfury L3: Member

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    Ok, why do we still not have a maps subscription function for the tf2 workshop?
    CS:GO, Portal, L4D2 and by the looks of things soon Dota 2!

    As most of you will already know how much work goes into making a map.
    And sorry to say, as good as tf2map.net is, It doesn’t cut it any more.
    It was very good back before quick play was added and many server actually ran custom maps.

    Many more people know about the workshop then this site, all we need is
    the same as what CS:Go has, it works well.

    This would help vastly, as you can get a lot more people playing your maps and custom maps in general.

    Anyone that has a map that is finished or almost finished should submit their map to the workshop to get attention towards this issue. Ignore that maps are flagged as incompatible.
    The more people that do this the better.

    I have already submitted a map.

    Even if you don’t submit a map add a comment to the comments section.

    Its obvious by a lot of the comments that regular tf2 players want custom maps as well.

    Rant over
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  2. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    As far as valve has said, the map workshop is coming. Soon.
     
  3. Fantasma

    aa Fantasma

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    As much as I like the idea of all of spamming the misc category with maps, I don't want to bite the hand that feeds us, even after they said they're working on it, especially because they said they're working on it

    Also this is a straight up dick move.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  4. infectedfury

    infectedfury L3: Member

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    And how long ago did they say it will be soon?
    Soon for Valve can be a year+
     
  5. wareya

    wareya L7: Fancy Member

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    i don't see it as mean or rude to submit maps to the current workshop, just pointless. it's not like valve loses something important for every mis-categorized item, unless there's like, hundreds to thousands of them, maybe.
     
  6. infectedfury

    infectedfury L3: Member

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    This.
    All Im asking is for a few highquality maps be added. Should only need around 10 maps at the same time to get some attention to it.
     
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  7. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    They know we want it. They're working on. Putting maps on the workshop that's not intended for maps just lowers the quality and usefulness of the workshop.
     
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  8. wareya

    wareya L7: Fancy Member

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    apparently "I don't have a problem with it" is the same as encouragement now?????
     
  9. infectedfury

    infectedfury L3: Member

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  10. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

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    I really want TF2 maps to be a part of the workshop. Or something like that. TF2 maps has become it's own little gaming community for tf2, and is one of the few sites left that supports kind words and proper feedback. If maps was moved entirely to the workshop, everything would be flooded with: "terribad, go die in a hole that somebody set on fire" If TF2 maps was incorporated into the workshop, it would benefit a lot of people.
     
  11. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I'd have put all my maps on the workshop if it didn't have a legal document set up for non-map items. I'd rather not sign away my IP for nothing thanks.
     
  12. worMatty

    aa worMatty Repacking Evangelist

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    I don't think server operators are stupid. If they want custom maps, they'll search the web. They'll find tf2maps.net or Game Banana.

    Workshop sounds neat and flashy. But you'll probably end up with tons of rubbishy maps on there. And there won't be any quality control outside of a rating system, which can be manipulated. When a map is posted on here or Game Banana, critics come out of the woodwork to rip the map apart and tell you what you should have done differently. On a Workshop, you may not have people like ABS, Seba, Crash, and all the other famous folk that I'm not yet familiar with, to point stuff out. You'll have kiddies who don't like maps because they aren't Mario Kart-themed.

    But maybe that's what custom servers really need. Quantity over quality. Maybe we've been doin it rong.

    I'd like to think that places like this will still be kicking around. Since those maps that end up on the Workshop have authors who need help and like to talk to like-minded folk, there is a place for them.
     
  13. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Advantage of workshop -> servers automatically update to newest version of map.
     
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  14. Woozlez

    Woozlez L3: Member

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    The workshop will probably get a lot of first time hammer users who won't know the resources on hand to help them in creating maps. I hope in the Map Workshop announcement that Valve mentions all the resources available here at tf2maps.net, and keeps it as a note at the top of the maps workshop.

    Also, workshop items can be added to collections. So I hope that there is a TF2Maps.net Showcase collection that is at the top of the collection charts.

    Finally, I hope that when you open up the map workshop, it's by default set to release candidate only and most popular in last week, and that not a single orange map can be found on that front page.
     
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  15. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    Not to be rude, but I think you should really look at how the CS:GO map workshop has worked out for that game (i.e. really well). Imagining that gamebanana or TF2maps has even a fraction of the affect of a built in steam based mapping repository is pretty silly, even from a quality perspective.

    No one should be forced to adapt to the particular clique based nature of a website run by a distinct group of individuals, better to let the entire playerbase determine success or failure, IMO.
     
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  16. worMatty

    aa worMatty Repacking Evangelist

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    I never said "TF2maps will have the effect of a built-in Steam-based mapping repository." I am equipped with the appropriate faculty to imagine how such a system can improve things for mappers and server operators. I do not dispute the improvements in convenience, nor do I believe that every person who browses the TF2 workshop is a moron and incapable of identifying quality.

    Much of my post was in response to the OP. He seemed to think that places like this are not fit for purpose, suggesting that Workshop functionality for maps would make them redundant. I completely disagree, as I do not believe that the Workshop has the structure or tools to bring map authors together, like this service does, and teaches them, encourages them, systematically tests their work, etc. I believe that TF2maps will have a role to play in guiding new mappers, if such Steam-based functionality is added. And I do not think it appropriate to adopt the notion that this place is no longer of any use.

    I admit that I have a negative view of anything that allows content to amass in great bulk with no regulation. I believe everyone has a right to submit work, but I am concerned that it becomes more difficult to find decent maps, when so many are floating about. As I understand it, the rating system in the Workshop does not require that a user actually play a map for any length of time before he gets to rate it. I find this unfair, as I do not believe a map should be judged by its screenshots. I am yet to be convinced of the efficacy of such a system, but I am ready to accept it should it prove to work, and am optimistic that Valve will do a good job.

    You suggested I browse the CS:GO Workshop. I thank you for your recommendation. I have some experience with the Garry's Mod and Left 4 Dead 2 Workshops, but have never thought to visit CS:GO's as I don't own the game (I gave up on CSS when I decided my skills weren't compatible).

    You must understand, I have come to TF2 mapping at what could be considered a late stage, and have only recently signed up here. To find someone saying that this place doesn't cut it any more, is slightly concerning :)
     
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  17. ScorpioUprising

    aa ScorpioUprising

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    To provide you with some history, both standin and process were only moderately well received here. Both maps threads were relatively short (compared with some of the more well known maps on here) and not particularly useful for feedback. Most of my feedback was received from the competitive community and from play-tests in the (now defunct) new map weekends pug group. In fact, I seem to recall that quite a few people treated both maps with a fair amount of criticism and hostility, but did so in fairly hidden locations (mostly the Team Fortress 2 Mappers chat, which I pretty much don't ever frequent). Standin, for example, received one play-test via Gameday, in which an admin said it was a terrible idea and should probably not be done. And yet, lo and behold, both maps are now in the game as official community maps.

    I know some other mappers have had a fairly similar issue: 3DNJ, who won the artpass contest with mountainlab, also made koth_lakeside and koth_king, both of which are in game now. I remember someone in a thread here made a claim to the affect that "if koth_lakeside had been here in our forums, we would have torn it apart" seeming to imply that the author of the post felt as though there were some fundamental failings of its layout or gameplay. And yet it is in game, it gets played quite frequently in the highlander format, and it is otherwise an amazing bit of map design.

    The point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe this website is particularly suited for DETERMINING map quality. Its primary role should be that of a repository for maps and an information resource for new mappers, not a taste-maker that determines which maps should be put into the game. Basically, it shouldn't a be a community (one which has historically been fairly opaque and difficult to engage or join, focused more on the "regulars" than on new mappers) but a resource.

    Which is why I prefer the idea of the workshop. No one has any authority on the workshop, no one gets to have any more or less say on a maps destiny than any other, and social posturing is largely useless. Knowing an admin, or frequenting a chat-room shouldn't be the determining factor with regards to play-tests, community acceptance or any other qualitative assessment. with the eventual existence of the community map workshop, I believe that this website's role as a repository is destined to be downplayed, which is for the better as it ensures that someone with a grudge against someone else can't hold back a really valuable map from succeeding.

    As for finding quality items in the workshop format: again, look to CS:GO. Without a dedicated forum for map's, the CS:GO devs have still managed to find MANY maps to put into the game for their Operation's, and in a very short period of time. Yes, there are many mannnnny maps put into the workshop, and it can be difficult to search through them all, but I find that preferable to any group or forum where social connections play a significant role in determining status.
     
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  18. worMatty

    aa worMatty Repacking Evangelist

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    Excellent post, thank you so much for filling me in. I had always strayed away from this organisation in reverential fear, and only approached it once I felt my ability was at a level that I felt comfortable with, to engage.

    You have done much to assuage my fear of the Workshop map repository's potential negative aspects. I should work, with a view to outputting to the wider TF2 community in the future, as well.
     
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  19. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    Just throwing it out there; we're actively trying to get past this reputation and we'd love to hear your opinions on some of the topics we're starting with in our efforts to be more transparent/ a better community in general.

    Feedback Quality and Quality of Tests

    Map Showcase Submissions
     
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  20. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    I personally don't know anything about the CSGO custom map community, but from what I heard from Blade and/or Psy the major CSGO map authors are mainly focused on getting the maps ingame which often leads to a very negative atmosphere. I'm not saying that making maps just to get paid is bad (although I don't personally like it, I feel like it'd take all the fun of mapping away) or that the integration of a CSGO-like map system to TF2 will cause our community to sour, however - I'd absolutely love to see a TF2 map workshop on Steam. I'm sure it'd behave similarly to the TF2 item workshop, meaning that both good and bad maps would get submitted, maybe even at a ratio of 1:10, but the good ones would stay near the top and the crappier ones would get shoved to the bottom pages.

    I agree with what YM said, a map workshop would also make the server owners' lives much easier, since they wouldn't have to worry about updating the maps in their rotation. Also, the workshop would be a good way to promote TF2M - maps with links to the site are a great way to lead new mappers to a place where they can learn new skills and get the hang of mapping for TF2.
     
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