KotH spoil

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by ZeSpice, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    This is reworked version of 72hr map for MvA contest.
    Want to make it more balanced and fun (and add some Mothership destruction).

    [This map will be in a Pipeline/Doublecross visual style]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  2. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    33
    a2
    - Resized the capture zone
    - Changed the Saucer's angle
    - Added one mid ammo in the low tunnel
    - Changed mid ammo to small in the pit
    - Spawn was made smaller
    - Ceilings in the buildings were made lower
    - Moved spawn closer to the teambuilding
    - Added handrails on the second floor
    - Changed height of map's ceiling
    - Moved exits/windows
    - Moved containers and ammo/medkit, and changed containers's models to their smaller versions
    - Added some new extension with a side path and a path to cp

    Need some feedback for this version and new addings, and about scaling.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  3. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    94
    Positive Ratings:
    33
    a3
    - Removed small health pack in the pit
    - Removed side room with ammo in the pit
    - Removed small ammo packs near point
    - Removed mid health pack from Mid Building's second floor
    - Added two windows on the teambuilding's second floor for demo|soldier rollout
    - Added side rooms in the tunnel with small health packs
    - Moved ammo/medkits on the Teambuilding's first floor
    - Moved small ammo to another window and added a small medkit next to it
    on the teambuilding's second floor
    - Changed stairs inside the mid building
    - Moved walls on the mid building's first floor
    - Made tunnels shorter and moved exit in the mid building closer to the cp
    - Made capture zone smaller
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2014
  4. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    a5
    - Removed upper tunnel
    - Changed mid building (Chaged stairs, second floor, entrances)
    - Changed Teambuilding (Moved entrances, changed first and second floors)
    - Moved ammo and health packs
    - Moved Container

    Some new screenshots for _a5. Later will add more:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    a4
    - Removed low tunnel
    - Added two side rooms in pit with ammo and health packs
    - Added small room with ammo in mid building
    - Added a third exit from spawn
    - Added path on UFO from other side
    - Ceilings in the buildings were made lower (again)
    - Chaged the mid building's second floor
    - Moved walls on the mid building's first floor and on the team buildings first and second floors
    - Moved upper tunnel
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  5. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    a6
    - Removed the pit
    - Added some signs
    - Added two mid medkits
    - Changed spawn
    - Changed the teambuilding's routs
    - The general surface of the map has been moved up
    - Now you can fly above the cp
     
  6. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    the walls at the control point always made me feel like its a construction themed something

    construction pack needs more love
     
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  7. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    This is destroyed building by UFO. =)

    Construction pack is good. But i'm not planning add it.
    But who knows. Now I have only the basic design idea.
     
  8. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Mannhatten theme! At night! That is literally the only place I expected this map to be set.
     
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  9. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    Hm. Probably Mannhatten at night theme would be better than just doublecross|pipeline. I will think about it, thanks. =)
     
  10. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    a8
    - Changed small ammo to mid on the teambuilding's second floor
    - Changed the side path to mid from the teambuilding
    - Changed routes inside the teamduilding
    - Removed one entrance from spawn side
    - Fixed cliping on zapture zone and added a new platform to it.

    a7
    - Changed the mid building and capture zone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  11. Egan

    aa Egan

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    Through playing your map recently in gamedays and impromptus, I feel like your map doesn't have much depth - I get bored after about 8 minutes of gameplay.

    I see that you took inspiration from koth_lakeside where there is a side building next to the point which, if you control, you also control mid pretty well. This is a good mechanic; it adds some variation and chaos to 'who controls the point at any given time'. Even koth_viaduct, while excluding a side building for ambiguous control of the point, opens up the point with easy routes up to it (also called spam routes), and with the side sniper balconies. These snipers balconies exist on koth_spoil, but are in detriment due to the point location being a bit too closed in, making the sniper decks lose some value. The point being closed in and swarm-y even causes a full-frontal invasion up the front jump-route or ramp-route to be scary and little-of-use for people in their right minds to take.

    I would like the map more if I had more options for how to retaliate control of the point. Like having the sniper balconies run closer to the mid here, would allow me to bomb it without having to commit my height down to their level (the people on the point):

    [​IMG]

    Having the mid be slightly disconnected from the side areas, I think, is a good thing for koth. What I mean is that it can be easy to get to mid, but having the battle move from mid back up to the battlements, is not necessarily good. Recently there was that map from Doktor Richter, I think, that tended to have battles move from the control point to the areas in front of spawn, which was a bad thing (it was not fun). On koth_lakeside, while there is a route from the building directly towards spawn via the cave route, it seemed very dangerous. (I'm not sure exactly why, maybe the cave was foreboding).

    [​IMG]

    You could make this side top-area feel like a more important route if you opened up the top width, allowing for soldiers/demomen to bomb from a bit of a height advantage, but to not allow defenders of the point easy-access back up there.

    Alternatively, you could do like what koth_lakeside did and move the ground up a bit to the height of the floor of the building, to make mid's ground a bit more varied (although now we're really copying lakeside), and then open the side building up a bit too. This does require further analysis beyond speculation, and might take a bit of time / tests.

    [​IMG]

    Other ideas for making the map feel unique could be taking inspiration from the name Spoil (I think of spoiling a surprise), you could have some spytech device which was 'spoiled' by the UFO crashing into it, unleashing it upon the surrounding areas. Like having a weapon-testing experiment occasionally go off, but is affected by the UFO having crashed into it. This part isn't necessary, but it would make the map feel more unique. Currently, overall, even like what Wilson said in-game, "it feels like everybodies first koth map".
     
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  12. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    Thank you for this detailed feedback.
    I made some conclusions from this, that is helpful. Will try to make map better after this, but this is much harder to understand what is wrong, after new changes. =( Sometimes it looks like better to delete it and start again. But, end of contest is near, and still not start to adding details.

    Before last 72 contest, this is realy scared me to start make map (it looked like something endless and very hard). I did not know many things, especialy how to create working layuout, and then make changes to it and not screw up. But then I participated in 72hr contest and make some crap thing and that was some progress for me. Then I proceeded to improve my map, and now it playable. But now i don't know, when i must to start detailing it, after strong layuot (wich sound more logical, because this is easy to make changes.), or now and make changes together with adding some details.

    p.s.
    Yes, i have few ideas to make map a little unique.
    And yes, this is my first map, koth_map (and first layout).

    And sorry for engrish.
     
  13. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    Positive Ratings:
    33
    a9
    - Moved mid med kit on the first floor to small sideroom and added one mid ammo pack
    - Added a new route from teambuilding to mid entrance
    - Changed routes inside the teamduilding again
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  14. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    a10
    - Added new paths inside the mid building
    - Added observe point (finaly)
    - Changed top of the control point
    - Moved mid med kit on the first floor in the teambuilding and removed side room from it
    - Removed the side room on mid, and moved mid ammo kit closer to point
    - Some minor changes to layout's geometry.
     
  15. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    Some words after test. .-.

    1. Map looks like viaduct/lakeside, yep.
    Because when started 72hrs contest, i was having only basic (very basic) concept.
    And i made it just before contest was started. And that layout was senseless and weird.
    Then, after contest, i decided to continue improving this map.
    I analyzed viaduct and lakeside a little, and after that made a lot of changes. And after
    this map started to look like viaduct/lakeside.
    But now, contest's end is near. And i still need to design this map. So now this is senseless to make
    some big changes to layout.
    2. Now about tunnels. I think that was good idea. But after few test, it was looked useless.
    And it made people confuse. Lower route on map's side part made it to. So I removed them.
    3. About push trigger on cp top. I am not sure about it. Few times i added it, than removed.
    And i still don't know how much advantages this part gives to defenders (without push trigger.).
     
  16. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

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    Removed push triggers, and add space above cp again:
    [​IMG]
    And want to make cp more open, but not sure about it:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  17. ZeSpice

    ZeSpice L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    33
    a11
    - Added few crates next to container
    - Added mid ammo in the team building
    - Made cp more open
    - Removed push triggers above cp (again)
    - Changed space in front of spawn
    - Made jump window bigger
    - Removed wall on the teambuilding's second floor and added some crates for cover
    - Some changes with ammo kits and med kits
     
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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014