Spire

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by IcyEyes, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. IcyEyes

    IcyEyes L2: Junior Member

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    Updated to Alpha 1(b)

    Inspired by the unique vertical combat offered in orange_x I decided to
    put my first serious mapping efforts in to creating a map with this
    type of element as the main focus. This is very much an experiment in
    gameplay design, not visuals. This means the look will not remain as
    it is now. The plan is to crate a new (Maya/Aztec) art style for the
    map after I nail down the core layout through play testing.

    Please do not hesitate to let me know what you think. It could
    greatly effect the final version. Send any suggestions, comments,
    ideas, or bug reports to: isaiah@n00bicidal.com. You can also follow
    the development of this map and others on my blog: n00bicidal.com
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  2. Fireman

    Fireman L4: Comfortable Member

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    I love that someone's making a serious effort to improve this map. Are you going to keep it completely dev textured in the style of the original, or is it going to end up fully detailed?
     
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  3. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Dev textured is not a style
     
  4. laghlagh

    laghlagh L6: Sharp Member

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    I think they are temporary.
    And I really like the look of it, good job!
     
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  5. Hellfire

    Hellfire L9: Fashionable Member

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    ran it trough, GREAT job.
    btw it seams that it fixed sniper-domination style of orange))
    and i thin u should let dev-textures stay)
     
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  6. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    If the plan is to appeal to current players of orange, you probably want to stick with dev textures. I know a lot of players frequent orange because of low end machines.
     
  7. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    I commented on this on your FPSBanana post, but I'll add another thing here. If you decide to keep the dev textures, I'd highly recommend adding at least a bit of red/blue trim on certain structures in order to differentiate the two sides of the map. My other recommendations on my post were:

    1. Lower the edges on walkways so they're just slightly easier to jump over.
    2. Simplify and open up the inside of the tower a bit.
    3. Convert ramps to stairs, especially the really steep ones.
    4. Add some health.
    5. Give a shortcut to the middle area for the team that caps CP4 in order to reduce stalemates.

    If you decide to texture it, I think it'd look amazing with the egypt textures. There aren't that many of them so it would still be fine for lower end machines and it would fit with the pyramids.

    This is the first time I've ever had fun on an orange_x remake. :)
     
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  8. StoneFrog

    StoneFrog L6: Sharp Member

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    I like it! Very "clean". Don't use any orange. Please.
     
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  9. FreeLance_FoX

    FreeLance_FoX L6: Sharp Member

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    If it was styled to be sort of "aztec" or "temple" style it would be fantastic! I walked through it and the layout seriously seems like you've put some thought into it, so I hope you make an effort to at least make it playable by people who can't stand orange/dev textured maps. :3
     
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  10. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Was very interesting to play during today's gameday. The only issue was when it devolved into a sniper fest for a bit. That is just due to the long sight lines where you can easily see the 2, 3, and 4 points from one another. If something was blocking the sight from 2 to 4, but 3 can see either and either can see 3, that might work out well.

    For style/idea/etc, you could make it a mountain ridge or something, and you scale it to get to the 3rd point by going through tunnels where the current paths are, which open to the other points. Just a very rough idea of something that would make that possible.
     
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  11. bomc

    bomc L2: Junior Member

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    this is an interesting project, but it is still waaay to open. Almost every central spot in the map can be shot at from various sniper spots, which is why its too sniper friendly.

    Tips/suggestions for improvement:

    1) more cover. You could make more high and low places and add more houses.
    2) cp 2 & 4 are way too open. You could put it inside a big house, or put it more aside from the res of the map in other ways.
    3) make the middle point easier accessable. reduce the lengths of the paths leading to the point, especially the path inside the tower itself.
    4) safe paths (more cover)
    5) more cover
     
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  12. uma plata

    uma plata L6: Sharp Member

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    I did a solo run through

    Agree with bomc, needs more cover

    Needs more health
     
  13. IcyEyes

    IcyEyes L2: Junior Member

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    Thank you all for the fantastic feedback. I apologize for not initially providing more information on my goals concerning this project's future. The first alpha was a little rushed, but I'm hoping to start explaining things in more detail from now on. Let me first try to answer some of the questions brought up.

    My ultimate goal here is to create a small, exciting, highly replayable map featuring interactive environment elements with a dynamically changing landscape based around the points controlled by the teams. Orange X was only the starting inspiration because I love vertical combat.

    I'm using the alpha stage to focus exclusively on gameplay development and experimentation. Detailing is of no concern for me at this point. There will probably be some large revisions of the map, making older versions almost unrecognizable. Nothing is off limits for this project, If changes don't work out I'll revert back and try again. I do know what I'm trying to get, just won't know till I get there. :laugh:

    All dev textures are temporary. The final version will contain (God willing) all custom textures and props. I will be going for a per-Columbian era (Mayan) art style integrated into the tf2 universe. This is of coarse a HUGE undertaking for one person with limited knowledge and self discipline. Please pray for me! :unsure:

    Here's a few of the things I'm working on for the next release:

    • Provide more cover.
    • Redesign walkway edges.
    • Shorten the sight lines.
    • Add more health packs. :drool1:

    Not sure what I can do with the tower right now. Converting ramps to stairs was always the plan, just didn't want to add them until the layout was more nailed down.

    The work so far is turning into an almost complete overhaul, meaning I'll probably not have it ready for gameday Sunday (April 12). I'm looking into releasing a smaller update instead for that. (Alpha 1b)
     
  14. Hellfire

    Hellfire L9: Fashionable Member

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    any server where this map is in rotation? i wanna play it)
     
  15. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    i liked the map, but yeah, sniperfest :)
    you could completely enclose the CPs to force players to switch to different classes to protect the Control Points, something like Point A on Gravelpit, with only few niches for sniping
    the second flaw are were for me the too steep ramps around 1st&2nd cp

    other than that, once you start detailing, optimization will be a pain in the ass.
    you will need to keep the prop-count low, and work with disappearing func_lod brushes rather than func_detail
     
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  16. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    If you made the centre a displacement "hill" of sorts, it could provide all kinds of interesting battles. Don't leave it dev textured.
     
  17. IcyEyes

    IcyEyes L2: Junior Member

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    Turtles Elite Combat Units at 63.211.105.82:27015 has it in there rotation. The Alpha Omega Clan has a 24/7 cp_spire server up as well at74.63.81.77:27016.

    Fascinating... I've heard some people complain about this element a few times now. I'm not completely sure what it is they don't like about it. Is it too exhausting to climb such a steep staircase, or do you trip and fall off easily?

    I just said they were temporary! Sorry for the wall of text, but it's in there.
     
  18. AntonJ3000

    AntonJ3000 I am inactive and make horrible maps

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    A better version of orange_x, but still.. Too sniper-friendly, and sniper-friendly removes the Heavy.

    So make some side paths that is not sniper-friendly.
     
  19. eerieone

    aa eerieone

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    the degree the ramps go up just seems unnaturally steep, the ramps going up the spire are ok
    it's nothing gamebreaking, but people are used to less steep ramps from valve's maps

    ramps are usually there to allow access for wheeled objects, if the degree is too high, it's a chore to get them up a ramp
    believe me, i've been pushing heavy objects and old people through a retiring home for half a year :D
     
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  20. IcyEyes

    IcyEyes L2: Junior Member

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    Updated

    Just released a slightly improved version "alpha 1(B)" for gameday Sunday (April 12). Trying to address the sniper dominance problem by adding more cover and breaking up the sight lines.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009