Someone fix Granary. Please.

Discussion in 'Request Area' started by kirby`, May 6, 2011.

  1. kirby`

    kirby` L1: Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Positive Ratings:
    0
    This is a small request. Very small, actually.

    Can someone /please/ fix the spawns for red team on Granary? I'm a competitive player, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of the competitive community when I ask this.

    Most pub players won't care and most likely don't care whatsoever. But for us competitive players, the spawns for red team are screwed up. And yes, it matters.

    The time it takes to get to the mid point of any map, but for right now granary, is important. And with the spawn for the red team being skewered in comparison to the blue team, the timing to get to mid is off.

    So, can someone do us a favor and fix this? Thanks.
     
  2. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    726
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    So what's the problem exactly ? Looks the same to me ?
    [​IMG]


    EDIT: wait, I think I get it, BLU gets the forward spawns first while RED spawns in the back of the room, correct ?
     
  3. kirby`

    kirby` L1: Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Positive Ratings:
    0
    For the blu team, the players all spawn on the left side of the room, which is how the red spawn typically should be as well.

    But for the red team, it changes often. Sometimes everyone will spawn on the same side as the blu team, but then there are times (which happens more often than it doesn't) where half the team will spawn on the right side of the room.

    Technically, this isn't a big deal for the soldier, demo or scout class (3 of the 4 core classes in a competitive TF2 team). Scouts, as you know, are the quickest class and get to mid within the same time period regardless of the side they spawn.

    Soldiers need the left side so they can RJ effectively to second (jumping off the right wall when you exit your spawn onto the last point), whereas on the left side, there's nowhere to RJ off of. But then again, they can just RJ from the right side of the spawn to the left side without problem considering the resupply cabinets.

    For demos, it doesn't matter. They don't need walls to jump off of.

    So, here we are at the medic. Having uber @ mid is important if you don't make the other team fall back. Getting uber quickly is also important. So, if your medic spawns on the right side of the room and everyone else spawns on the left side, your medic has to quickly suicide so they spawn on the left side (Suiciding with mp_tournament set to 1 allows you to suicide in your spawn room and insta-spawn). That's time well wasted. If you have kill/explode bound to a key, the time it takes to switch is around a second or so. And that second is very important.

    If they were to not suicide and proceed to run to the left side of the spawn while going to mid, it will take longer for them to reach mid. This can mean a lot for the scouts and the demo who are fighting without a medic for the time being.

    Sorry for the long post, but I felt obligated to explain why this needs to be fixed. And if there is no fixable solution to this for some /odd/ reason, could you possible try adding a wall to the right side after exiting the right side spawn and possibly moving back that little wall that engineers and whatnot can hide behind some?

    Thanks if you read all of this, and thanks for replying.

    EDIT: Also, as you can see, the spawn entities aren't duplicated in the same format. More specifically, the 6 entities that are in the middle of the spawn room.
     
  4. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

    Messages:
    698
    Positive Ratings:
    273
    The spawn layout is the same - it's probably caused by how they rotated/mirrored them. I think the spawn order comes based on the order they were originally created in Hammer.
     
  5. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,034
    Positive Ratings:
    3,989
    QED, nothing to be done.
     
  6. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

    Messages:
    1,591
    Positive Ratings:
    405
    What you need to do is lobby Valve to change TF2 so that mappers have more control over the ordering or use-pattern of spawn positions.

    Come to think of it, didn't Granary have some starting gates that the competitive players wanted removed? Sounds like those would've sure helped now ;)

    So the easiest solution is just to lock the doors to the spawn for a while after the game starts.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. Trotim

    aa Trotim

    Messages:
    1,180
    Positive Ratings:
    995
    Have already gotten this request from like 3 separate comp players.

    Best way would be to let people choose their spawn position but since this would be a useful feature that requires more code Valve will never do it
     
  8. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

    Messages:
    1,575
    Positive Ratings:
    2,199
    Isn't the obvious solution simply to bunch up all the spawns on one side of the room and recompile it as cp_pronary? As long as they're not so tightly packed that the medic can't always hit anyone he wants with the healing beam, should work fine.

    Kep
     
  9. Trotim

    aa Trotim

    Messages:
    1,180
    Positive Ratings:
    995
    Where do you get the current version of cp_granary? If you just want to decompile it and recompile it, well have fun but I really don't feel like bothering
     
  10. kirby`

    kirby` L1: Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Positive Ratings:
    0
    Oh well. :l
     
  11. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,535
    What would be the preferred solution? Remove all but the six (nine?) spawns on the left side? Mash all 16 over there? Lay it out for me and I can do this for you.

    edit: left side is the one with the team logo, right?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  12. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    240
    Positive Ratings:
    149
    I've been experimenting with trying to fix the gran spawns for a while, or was till I sort of gave up on it. The easiest way is to simply delete all but the 6 spawns you want. It works all right, as long as you don't happen to spawn inside a teammate, that was a little disorientating, but only happened once when I was testing it. I have a proof of concept of this idea using the SDK version of gran (old gran).

    I think the better way to fix the spawns would be to delete all the red spawns and recreate them in an order that starts on the left and goes to the right and matches well to how the blu spawns are set up as this would allow the map to be used in pubs as well as in comp and could possibly be adapted by Valve in a future update to officially fix the spawns in gran. I was trying to implement that fix, but I couldn't get the decompiled version of gran that I got from yyler to recompile correctly and I don't have the knowledge to fix that problem.

    Also, Boojum, yes the left side is the side with the team logo. It's the left side from the your team's perspective as you spawn into the map/attack the map.
     
  13. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,535
    Regardless of what I do to the spawns, I would definitely be "re-sequencing" them so they are symmetrically ordered for spawning.

    Would this be an acceptable ordering? or should I even go so far as to... "gridify" the spawns more.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Eyce

    Eyce L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    370
    Positive Ratings:
    189
    Has anyone considered making the narrow spawn doors stay closed for the first 5-10 seconds so people can rollout fine?
     
  15. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,109
    Positive Ratings:
    6,061
    Presumably this solution would also help throughout the round?*

    *Never played comp, do not listen to me i dont know what i'm talking about.
     
  16. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,535
    I presume later respawnings don't matter since the game is already in motion and there is no perfect balance between both teams reaching the center equally fair that needs to be maintained.
     
  17. Empyre

    Empyre L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    294
    Positive Ratings:
    141
    I remember back with HL1 and its mods (including the great TFC), you could modify the entities in a map without actually changing the map itself, using a tool called ripent. Does the Source engine and TF2 have anything like that?
     
  18. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,535
    That's what I plan to do. Except just through several steps with the stock SDK tools. There is a program for Source called EntSpy, but more needs to be done than just that, so I was going to do it the long way (easier to keep track of anyhow).
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  19. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

    Messages:
    1,591
    Positive Ratings:
    405
    IIRC you can just do it with a hex editor too, particularly if all you're doing is re-ordering entity text-entries rather than trying to increase the size.
     
  20. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,535
    I finally got some time to work on this, and if anyone cared (loc n lol), this is the spawn ordering by default.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]