Simplifying Hammer

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Attsy, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Attsy

    Attsy L3: Member

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  2. Dragonstorm24

    Dragonstorm24 L4: Comfortable Member

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    Source filmmaker is added to Source SDK?
     
  3. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I'm not nervous yet. It really depends on how simple they make it.

    Too Simple, and we'll get a ton of people mapping, and maybe making crappy maps.

    But do it just right, and we could see an good influx of mappers, I think if they are doing for the 3rd party mappers and such, they should do it so that there is a little bit of a learning bump to get over, that way you don't get people who just make maps to say they have, you get people who want to make maps because they -want- to, not just to say they did.
     
  4. DJive

    aa DJive Cake or Death?

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    Simplify doesn't always mean dumb down, a lot of times it means streamlining.

    Source is extremely extremely extremely extremely outdated to editors out 6+ years ago.

    I'm highly looking forward to anything they do to the editor.
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Mmm, good point. I always fall into the "they'll dumb it down" mindset.
     
  6. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    I'm still (this new is a few weeks old) confident that the quoted statement is heavily talking about everything EXCEPT Hammer. Everybody infers Hammer from "sdk update" and talks about how bad it is, but really, getting a material, model, soundscape, particles, or any of the numerous single-player related fancy files into the engine from scratch is tremendously more irritating than getting a map from Ctrl+N to running.
     
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  7. skinnynerd

    skinnynerd L2: Junior Member

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    Also, Valve employees are (hopefully) reasonably experienced with mapping tools and so wouldn't "dumb down" Hammer very much. Remember that the upgrade is mostly for Valve.
     
  8. What Is Schwa

    What Is Schwa L6: Sharp Member

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    I'm not entirely sure what could be done to improve the actual mechanisms by which we create. Sure, more automation and tools could be put in, but ultimately the best products are created by tweaking at the most precise scale possible. For example, displacements have a lot of tools that automate the process, but getting the best visual look eventually requires vertex by vertex manipulation.

    In fact, I would argue that many of the tools in place aren't actually useful. Creating an arch brush with the brush tools instead of vertex manipulating several block brushes is a terrible way to create an arch that is useful.

    I'm sure the tools they incorporate will be very useful to experienced users. However, from the perspective of an amateur who doesn't have access to the tool makers I worry that these tools will hinder creation by amateurs rather than promote it. The way a tool is meant to be used and HOW it is used are often very different. For example: it is a very noob tendency to think that a single large displacement brush with a higher value is a good approach for doing landscapes. Instead, many smaller brushes with lower values are easier to manipulate and adjust and give better looking results.
     
  9. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    So far every update to Hammer I've seen has been pretty good, the most recent one off the top of my head was that Instance(?) thing. For the life of me I can't remember what it's actually called but it sounded cool.. never use it though. Allowed multiple people to work on a map easily or something?

    Whatever Valve does to Hammer I'm almost positive it'll be a good tweak or addition.
     
  10. Bermuda Cake

    Bermuda Cake L9: Fashionable Member

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    I'm not worried about a sudden rush of new mappers, that can only be a good thing, provided they're mature about the limitations of being a beginner.









    *ahem*
     
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  11. Corvatile

    aa Corvatile eyes open at all times

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    HEY GUYS HEY HEY GUYS I MADE MARIO KART 3 SUPER SPECIAL SPONGEBOB MODE!!!!!!!111111WTF11111zomgfreehatplz
     
  12. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I lol'd...

    It would be nice if they gave out information onto what they are looking at.
     
  13. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    I'd be happy if they just updated the splash screen.

    [​IMG]
    It's not 2005 anymore.
     
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  14. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    That is good idea ^
    lol.
     
  15. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    To those all people (I am looking at you Brick and Bermuda) who have problem with quake and have need to make posts like the first two on this page.

    [​IMG]

    You do more harm to him than good.
     
  16. Numerous

    Numerous L4: Comfortable Member

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    Dammit, they still haven't confirmed a telepathy extension for Hammer?
     
  17. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    All things considered, I can't think of much they could do to improve just Hammer on its own; most of the biggest limitations lie in the engine. Hammer is incredibly easy to use, largely at the expense of the engine being overly simplistic in some respects. Compare the brush-and-model... er, model to the way Unreal does it: the whole map is in effect a giant, complex model that receives real-time lighting, so every surface can be phong-shaded. Building a map in Unreal is more like 3D modeling; Hammer is more like a home design program or something.

    My #1 request, though, would be the one I proposed back when we had our "How would you improve Hammer" thread: in the displacement editor, instead of clicking up and down buttons to move a node, you could just select it and drag it around like the way the vertex editor works. If you need more precise control, you could use a slider (similar to the one we have now) to change the scale of the "grid" that the dragging snaps to.
     
  18. zpqrei

    aa zpqrei Theme Changer Extraordinaire

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  19. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Try a 3D software. Then you understand how simple hammer really is already.
     
  20. BrainInBlack

    BrainInBlack L1: Registered

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    Hammer is not as simple as Maxon´s C4D, but very simple in comparison to 3DS Max or Maya.

    But Hammer needs some improvements. The lighting preview, is pretty much useless, custom vis-groups are a pain in the a**, if you use them like i do and many more (little) things.

    :D