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MVM Shipper B4 (Reupload)

Mappers vs. Machine map set in an open shipping department

  1. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Stop wasting your time reading this sentence
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  2. Another Bad Pun

    Server Staff Another Bad Pun Enemy of the Human Race

    Messages:
    526
    Positive Ratings:
    970
    I approve of the map name
     
  3. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  4. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    A bunch of stuffs, changes include:

    -Conveniently reduced the map size
    -Changed some health/ammo kit sizes
    -Added an upgrade station near the top right nav path(Look at screenshot)
    -Fixed Navigation
    -Reduced the size of main spawn hole
    -Brightened the first building
    -Added a lot more cover(Look at screenshot)
    -Minor changes to normal and Major changes to advanced mission(Read Below)
    -Fixed advanced mission not appearing due to naming problems
    -Textured some stuff
    -Added nobuilds

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  5. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Changes Include:
    -Added a flanking nav(More coming soon)
    -Improved spawnrooms
    -Improved Navigations
    -Fixed tank path magically passing through cargos
    -Added Expert mission
    -Textured more stuffs

    *Added a bird-eye view screenshot

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  6. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Changes Include:

    -Added more detail(Look at screenshots)
    -Textured more stuffs(Look at screenshots)
    -Changes to normal, advanced, and expert
    -Includes periodic extra bombs in some advanced and expert missions and it's icon.
    -Added another flank nav
    -Improved Navigation
    -Changed some prop_static to prop_dynamic
    -Added Sniper spots
    -Added more Engineer spots

    -...And some other stuffs too minor to be written



    Screenshots are also updated with each update.

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  7. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Changes Include:
    -Added areaportals
    -Added A LOT of detail
    -Added 3D skybox
    -Removed spawn doors
    -Textured even more stuffs
    -Improved spawn room
    -Added env_fog_contoller
    -And other stuffs too minor to be listed

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  8. Freyja

    aa Freyja But why?

    Messages:
    2,772
    Positive Ratings:
    4,434
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  9. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    Hi ALOT.
     
  10. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    -REDUCED THE MAP SIZE
    -Added more clipping
    -Added considerably a lot more pickups
    -Changes to Normal mission
    -Changes to Advanced mission (Nerfed it. Greatly.)
    -Added more areaportals
    -Added fade distances to props
    -Updated the ground displacements(With a new material, too)
    -Updated the Hatch area(Look at screenshots)
    -Improved 3D skybox
    -Fixed a rare case where bots could get stuck
    -Improved Navigation(Flank navs now actually work)
    -Fixed Sniper spots
    -Added more nobuilds
    -Textured a lot of stuffs
    -Fixed players not spawning in the other spawn(s)
    -Fixed a console error that doesn't really matter anyways
    -And other stuffs way too minor to be listed


    Why would you read other updates anyways...
     
  11. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Changes now include:

    -Added soundscapes and it's file
    -Fixed the custom tank model having a dumb collision model
    -Updated the train(See for yourself in-game)
    -Fixed some displacement bugs
    -Improved clipping
    -Improved navigation
    -Fixed a case where bombs will not drop at the hatch
    -Fixed some paths not working
    -More areaportals
    -Textured even more stuffs
    -And other stuffs way too minor to be listed

    (IMPORTANT: This map now uses Frontline pack. Download it here)

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  12. Freyja

    aa Freyja But why?

    Messages:
    2,772
    Positive Ratings:
    4,434
    You should pack your custom content. You should not force people to download the frontline pack, and most players won't even get it from the website and see that it's needed and this will cause a lot of players to quit your map, as this will severely decrease the playability of your map in tests as missing models mean the player can see through a sightline, or even walk through where the model should be. Missing textures are ugly and can literally cause gameplay to happen different on your map because a missing texture won't be lit and is extremely hard to see anything (robots) against. You can also use this to pack your icons and custom tank model.

    You can use CompilePal to compile your map and it will automatically pack the custom models - it will however not automatically pack the custom icons, the tank model (as it is not referenced in the map file). For that you would need to add then manually through VIDE
     
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  13. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
  14. Hydrogen

    Hydrogen MvM Maniac

    Messages:
    84
    Positive Ratings:
    195
    Alright let's talk about your map here because you seem to not be reading the feedback left on the server:

    MAP ISSUES

    - Your map is overscaled. It still is even though you said the size is now smaller. The distance between the 2 RED spawnrooms is almost like the distance from bot spawn to player spawn in mvm_decoy. I have to rocket jump 4-5 times (standard RL) or beggar's overload a full clip to get from the right spawn to the left spawn, especially if there is a tank coming around that corner.

    For reference: I can get from bigrock's player spawn to the bigrock cave entrance with a beggar's overload jump. If I have to do that to get between 2 spawnrooms, you have a very serious problem with your spawn areas.

    Your buildings are also too wide, too tall, and too large.

    - Your skybox is horrendous. This is supposed to be a shipping facility, and the skybox doesn't fit the map environment at all.

    - The entire map being orange makes it look washed out. The orange dev textures make our eyes bleed and hard to figure out where in the map we are (this is further compounded by the overscaling issue). I suggest changing the dev textures to white/gray to be easier on player eyes. Do not use all the same or washed out colors on your map when you start detailing it. Aesthetics above all else will make a player either want to play your map or leave the server (currently it's the latter with your map).

    - The bot spawn is super dark, and that area should be among the most well lit areas of any MvM map since it's where the robots come from. Your props are a mess in the bot spawn area, with containers and other stuff thrown in randomly. The pickups are placed in odd spots, and it's really hard to navigate within that area as a whole. You may find it better to not make the bot spawn inside a cramped building but rather just open it up to the atmosphere instead.

    - Your pickups are in very weird and unintuitive spots. When people are looking for ammo and health they will look around rooftops, inside buildings, or around corners. MvM maps also tend to have lots of ammo around (especially near tank routes) so you need to place more of them. I had to resort to letting engineer bots place buildings and I can smash them into bits to refill my ammo supply (as opposed to outright killing them). Scaling down the map quite a bit will also help to address this problem.

    - The far right path is a huge obnoxious choke point for the bots. Literally nothing (not even the 3 giant soldiers and 6 giant medics in advanced mode) will make it alive past that choke, especially if the team has crit canteens and a medic shield ready to be deployed. Remove all those containers and barrels so it's less chokey.

    - The staircase leading up to the forward upgrades station is obnoxiously large and overscaled as if it was designed for elephants to walk up on. The forward station also doesn't work on wave failure; use a logic_auto and enable it in there.

    - Your displacements are weirdly placed on the map, especially near the chokey right tank pathway. They are not intuitive; sometimes I don't expect to be walking up/down a displacement until I walk on it. Also, the map more or less takes place on flat ground all the time with no routes going up or down (save for the overscaled staircase route maybe). Neither side has height advantages or disadvantages (except for the buildings, which are situational and sometimes risky since snipers can pick off players on rooftops).

    - The fencing at the hatch gives cover to the robots that are at the hole and not any useful protection to the players. This is because the spawnrooms are too far apart from the hatch and the fence provides the bots protection from the right spawnroom (we lost to a giant scout this way). The fence around the hatch is worse than useless (it's a liability) to players.

    - Sightlines, sightlines, sightlines. Snipers have a hayday (both player and bot snipers) on your map because there's no way to hide from snipers on your wide open map. Similarly, giant and spam bots have easy shots at players because most of the time players are right in the open on this map. Bot heavies are painful because once they lock on to you, you are dead since they aim their minigun precisely wherever you go unless you somehow jump or run away.

    - Your bot routes are lacking any sort of spine. They go more or less in some straight line with some near-90-degree bends and then they are at the hatch.

    - Pack ALL your assets into the map except for nav and pop files. My server doesn't support miscellaneous downloads (we have a special system for bot icons on the HUD) and I can assure you most servers do not support extra downloads other than just the .bsp file. As such, make sure you pack everything your map needs into the map (and nothing extraneous either). Use sv_pure 2 to check that all your custom content is in your map file.

    - As it currently stands I have a lot of difficulty finding people to test your map because they drop from the server right after they walk out of the spawnroom. The main reason for this is because you haven't addressed most of the problems we have mentioned since a1; the map looks almost exactly the same save for detailing bits and some props being shuffled around. You need to give your map a good overhaul and implement most of (if not all of) the above feedback if you want people to test your map again.

    ADVANCED MISSION ISSUES

    - Your advanced mode waves are full of spam. There is not a whole lot of a challenge other than bash the medic shield in front of the bots faces and spam click or hold down M1.

    - The medics do not need 10000% ubercharge rate to the point where their meter refills before their first uber expires. They also do not need one minute long uber durations either. Moving off of standard behavior for small bots is unadvised unless you somehow make it very clear those bots are special (usually done by giving them some special hat or cosmetics or name). Even then, those numbers are way too off to be considered "fun". Players expect bots to behave like they do in Valve missions (and have same health and attributes); only custom bot icons, cosmetics on the bot, or a different name on the bot will change those expectations.

    - You do not need uber medics on every wave. Variety is the key to success in pop files.

    - The waves are REALLY REALLY long. Advanced mode waves usually don't exceed 6-7 minutes (most stay within the 4-6 minute range). Some of your advanced waves went into the 10 minute mark, which is as long as 2 typical advanced waves together. Unless you're going for an endurance mode mission (which in your case you're not), the waves should not be this long.

    - Near the end of the mission people had to resort to [crit] canteen spamming to take out the hoarde of giants you throw at them, otherwise there's no hope for victory. If people have to use crits to keep things under control then you have a spam problem with your waves.

    - Due to the huge size and scale of the map, as well as the lack of decent chokes, cover, and routes, giant scouts are an instant checkmate if they slip by. Catching them is made harder if they run past since the map is so huge. I had to buy 1 clip upgrade in the event of an emergency so that if a giant scout ran past us I can overload jump with a beggar's back to the hole from the front (that doesn't justify your map geometry whatsoever since that is dependent on the player using a beggar's bazooka and playing soldier). Even suiciding and buying back in wasn't helpful because the distance from the hole to the spawnroom (as well as that useless fence) makes it too hard to defend.

    - You do not need bots to bring out 2, 3, 4, 5, ... bombs when 1 bomb on its own is hard enough to defend on your map. This fact is dependent on your current map geometry; this may no longer be an issue if you address most of the map problems.

    - Throwing multiple giant medics on a giant robot (especially those that have invincibility) is somewhat of a dick move. It also can be easy to trash with a beggar's bazooka or a crit carpet sticky nest. Either way, those configurations encourage stacking soldiers and demos. In fact, due to the sheer quantity of spam on your pop file, soldier stacking was the way to go to cheese most of it. You made most classes less useful/obsolete (especially pyro) than soldier (especially when stacking their 3 banners makes your wave even easier).

    - The giant engineer does not need building health that require a fully maxed rocket launcher clip to be destroyed. A building health bonus makes sense, but tone it down. Remember the bonus not only applies to the sentry, but also to the (far more important) teleporter next to it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    Well, I did watch the demo, and it was on A5. From A6, as I have tested 2 sticky jump should be enough to make it to the main building.
     
  16. OctoBlitz

    OctoBlitz L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    193
    Positive Ratings:
    61
    I wouldn't suggest stickey or rocket jumps, rather use pyro, sniper, or engineer to walk the distance from the two spawnpoints.
     
  17. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
    16
    I've also done that, using highest possible speed(173%, don't ask how) and it took 17 seconds to get from furthest player spawn point to bot spawn, while Bigrock takes 20 seconds.
     
  18. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16
    (Expert will currently be left un-managed. Have fun with it's current version)
    Wouldn't it be better if you just discover the changes on your own?
    -Updated the train(Improved brakes and speed)
    -Changed all orange textures to black wall(For alpha, will be fully textured in beta)
    -Improved the ground
    -Improved transition between the ground and concretes
    -Packed custom content, mostly
    -Added some shortcuts
    -Added more covers
    -Added more detail
    -Improved clipping
    -Improved logics and stuff
    -Added more hologram arrows
    -Changes to advanced mission
    -Changed Holy Giant Medic's Uber delay from 30 to 20
    -All robots now use Factory New skins
    -Assigned some robots to flank navs
    -Removed Soldiers and Pyros assisting 2 Giant Crit Soldiers on wave 1
    -Reduced the count of several robots
    -Removed Uber Medics on Wave 3 and 5
    -Improved deathpit
    -Improved pickups
    -Improved spawnroom
    -Improved soundscapes(As if they actually work at the first place)
    -Added an actual flank nav
    -Detailed the first spawnroom
    -Changes to Hatch's fences
    -Improved navigation
    -...And other stuffs way too minor to be listed

    Why does this even exist... Idk
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  19. Kobolite

    Kobolite L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    335
    Positive Ratings:
    163
    You copied the changelog twice. Just so you know. Also shipper is the best name for any map
     
  20. ITstumbler

    ITstumbler L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    50
    Positive Ratings:
    16