KotH shipment (now in KOTH Flavor, and optimized!)

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by studio2a, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. studio2a

    studio2a L1: Registered

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    It's been quite a while, but "Shipment" is back again! This time, we have modified it to play as a King of the Hill map (thanks to ABS for the gametype library!), cleaned it up, and seriously optimized it. (link to original)

    As a KOTH map, we have to say- it's much, much more fun! Icarus suggested this (long ago), and he couldn't have been more right. With all players concentrating on a single, centrally located Capture Point, and the KOTH play mechanics, the "frantic-fast-chaotic" gameplay of Shipment is great fun.

    Enjoy, and please let us know how you like the new mode! As always, suggestions/critique/etc are welcomed, too.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jimmy Nicholls

    Jimmy Nicholls L2: Junior Member

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    Is this a conversion from COD4?
     
  3. Dragonstorm24

    Dragonstorm24 L4: Comfortable Member

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    It was terrible in COD4 and it doesn't work for tf2, it is way too small, leads to spawn camping, and is basically just deathmatch. No reworking of any kind can save this map.
     
  4. Vincent

    aa Vincent 🔨 Grandmaster Lizard Wizard Jedi 🔨

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    Thats kinda harsh. Don't you think?
     
  5. Dragonstorm24

    Dragonstorm24 L4: Comfortable Member

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    It is with reason, the flaws that were in the original gamestyle were one that it was way too small to be an enjoyable map, two that it encouraged spamming grenades without any real sort of gameplay, three you couldn't move an inch without being killed instantly, and four it is not meant for a large group of people. All of these flaws carry over into TF2 but now the flaws become even more numerous. Spamming is easier since you can get ontop of the crates and spam rockets or stickies killing multiple people instantly, it does not encourage team gameplay since the map is to small to form any sort of strategy plus the spawning is meant for a free for all deathmatch, even with it being KOTH the map was originally designed for dm and any other gamemode type just doesn't work at all due again to size and spawn area. The original map is very overated anyway and is pretty much just a flat map with prop spam plus most other games do not port well to TF2 due to the style and game mechanics. If anything was going to be ported from COD4 a more plausable idea would be something like Backlot since it already suppports some of the TF2 gamemodes and it is relatively balanced between open and cover combat with 2 defined sides. So essentially it is a really bad idea to due any port from COD or Halo or any other major game just due to the big difference mechanics. The only thing I can see going for it right now is the skybox, if this map was expanded upon to fit TF2 (size and style and displacements) it might do well.

    (and yes I am an avid fan of COD4)
     
  6. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Somebody introduce this guy to the brush tool.
     
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  7. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

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    Well, that's some straightforward dislike from Dragonstorm24- but we did ask for opinions :)

    Yes, this is a small, chaotic, spammy map- and that's how it's designed to be. It isn't meant to be a map that you play for hours on end, or even (in my estimation), more than 10-15 minutes tops. Call it a "break" map", where you can just blast about and have a good time, relax the brain and engage the twitch reflex, till the next map in rotation.

    Understandable if you dislike it for those reasons, and we expected it. 'Course, we also hoped at least some would enjoy it for those same reasons. It'll probably be a love-hate map, and that's fine. All we ask is you give it a quick try! :)

    Oh, and LeSwordfish- what's a "brush"? HA, just kidding...this map just happens to work best with props- the entire skybox is brushwork, and various other pieces, though. Perhaps I could replace the containers with brushwork, but didn't seem necessary.

    PS- any note on framerate?
     
  8. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    My FPS was somewhat fine, if you really want boost fps out of this in full gameplay scenario, you should try to find way to do detailing on map with less prop spam, even if all props are part of the style you are going for.
     
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  9. Turbo Lover

    aa Turbo Lover Fight me under Glasgow Central Station

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    Which is gonna be pretty hard to do, when your spawn is being camped into oblivion.

    Firtsly, a single level 3 sentry (with the Wrangler) could lock down the entire map if placed correctly, what fun it will be to get dominated by an Engi on the other side of the map for 3 minutes straight.

    Secondly, even if there are no Engis, those sightlines are gonna be killer, walk out of the spawn, boom, headshot.

    And thirdly, porting maps into TF2 is a bad idea for a long list of reasons, the style of map, the mechanics in play, ETC.

    In actual feedback towards the map itself, the Health & Ammo you have follows no logical placement, pattern and lacks consideration into what size they will be. You have about 6 or 7 medium Ammo packs with about 3 small Health packs, the majority located in the space usually only a Demo, Soldier or Sentry Jumping Engi can get to, which in the case of an Engi getting up there, there is way too much ammo, (See paragraph 2).
     
  10. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Just going with what Wilson and Behind you said,

    Yea, less propspam is good, this isn't the CoD Engine (I forgot the name) and this certainly isn't CoD. CoD is more arcadey, twitchy shooting, etc. TF2 isn't.

    On a side note, even though it is prop-spammy, has not-so-great ammo/hp locations... it LOOKS nice.
     
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  11. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

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    Thanks for the comments-
    Wankhouse: we are considering making the outer crates into brushes, but think it would hurt the look too much, to replace the inner crates. FPS is important though.

    Behind You/Fr0Z3n: I'm not sure an engi would ever get the time to set up such a sentry- or how long it could stand against so many random spawns. Have you played it?? ;) Try before you decide! And yes, porting maps usually doesn't work well- if you want to keep the same old gameplay. We were hoping TF2 players would be open to a different style of play, at least occasionally, eh? Sure, it's nothing like usual TF2 (symmetrical, corridors, a-b-c, etc), and expect flak for that- but it can be lots of fun if players are willing to step outside the norm...

    That said, how many have actually tried it? Really, it's worth a go, if you have a server that can give it a test drive. Not sure if this is "too finished" for the official Game Days?

    PS, thanks for compliments on the look too!
     
  12. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    You would be surprised how much damage good engineer with Jag and Wrangler can do.
     
  13. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I have ran through the map and stand by what I said.

    But I also add some more:

    >Its too small.

    >What the hell is up with the spawns? This is TF2, not CoD. Slapping down random spawn points around a map and calling it okay may be the norm of CoD, but for TF2 it is a big no-no. I mean BIG No-no. MAYBE for arena, and under very rare, and very well designed cases.

    >This map would be dominated by scottish resistance demo's who would just sticky the spawn points and camp, no one would have fun with the exception of the 1 or 2 demo/engie's who would be camping the whole time.

    >Also, those crates on the edges are REALLY un-naturally perched. I may be just an astronomy and astrophysics major, but I'm pretty sure that those would fall over just from the breeze from the bay.

    CoD maps are for CoD, just as BF:BC2 maps are for BF:BC2. Each has their own mechanics, each has their own art style, each is different. And rarely (VERY RARELY) can they be ported to each other. And when they are successfully ported they are VERY VERY well done and changed accordingly to the game they are being ported to.

    Sorry to tear it up, but porting maps without any regard for the game your porting to is very annoying and un-intelligent.

    The only thing I see good from this map is the detailing. 'bout it.
     
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  14. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    arena would be the worst imo because you might spawn in the middle of the whole enemy team and the round would end very quickly for you :p
     
  15. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Exactly.

    If you are going to keep it, you need to make spawn rooms.
     
  16. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

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    Thanks for the further comments- glad you gave it a run-through, sad you didn't like it, but so it goes.

    I agree with all these points, for a normal TF2 map. If the intent were to make this map play anything at all like usual TF2, it would be an epic fail, I'm with you 100% on that.

    This map, though, isn't meant to be played that way. And yes, that means a lot of TF2 players will be initially opposed to it (obviously, lol). Heck, they'll probably stay opposed to it, and that's fine, it's to be expected. I appreciate all the comments, but want to stress, it isn't meant to play out like a regular TF2 map. Along those lines, I don't agree with "un-intelligent" and "annoying", it was just conceived with different goals than usual.

    The hope is that we'll find others like ourselves, who really enjoy this type of (extremely) non-traditional map. We would especially like to hear from any of you!
     
  17. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

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    Oh, spawn rooms- I think it's just too small for that, and really the idea is just to be random-frantic-chaotic. Yes, totally against the TF2 norm. We can't be the only ones who enjoy this, are we? :p
     
  18. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Well how it is meant to be played then, you are giving no guidance to anyone "how to differently play this map" you have gamemode set to KOTH, with control point etc.

    If you aim for map that is not meant to be played like normal TF2 map, you also have to inform your players about that, you can't expect everyone who connects to server and plays the map knows what is point of this map.
     
  19. (s2a) yahodahan

    (s2a) yahodahan L3: Member

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    Good point, Wankhouse- I'll update the Chalkboard to warn players properly ;) I'll also add something along those lines to the description here, thanks.

    KOTH seemed the best way to play such a map, however if anyone feels it would be better in a different mode, open to suggestions.
     
  20. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    The thing is, for even non-traditional tf2 this wouldn't work. Your using a normal game-type (KoTH) and as such, this carries normal expectations. As wilson said, you will need to tell players from the start that its a new gametype (which, technically it is).

    What I see happening is that, your right, you will get people to play it, but not for long, hell, they might just stay for 30 seconds at max. People will join, thinking its a normal KoTH map, spawnrooms, somewhat large map, etc. But to their surprise they will join up and explode because there is a demo or an engie or a soldier camping everything. They will then leave and avoid the map like the plague. No one likes being camped.

    The fact that you claim that the map is "Too small" for spawn rooms is very confusing me.

    Again, this is TF2. Not CoD. There is a Very bold line between the two.