Server re-install

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by MrAlBobo, Jan 18, 2009.

?

Reinstall Server?

  1. Restart it

    84.4%
  2. Leave it

    15.6%
  1. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    Now...obviously most people should have noticed the many problems with the server now, I think a complete re-install has good odds of improving the situation as it stands. There are two goals behind this thread, I 1st want to see if the community agrees with the idea of restarting the server, and I want to gather some ideas on what needs to be done before the server restart.

    The stuff that needs to be done beforehand as far as I am aware is:
    - save the maplist (maps can be direct transferred from the redirect)
    - save the server.cfg (id prefer to have the community write a new one so the ideal configuration is reached)
    - save the file that stores admin status (not sure what it is with sm)
    - have the community decide on a good motd and perhaps server name
    - redesign the privileges of admins, it seems a bit flawed to allow admins to turn on low grav, but not allow them to set next map, also, noclip ability should be restored

    looking for suggestions on anything i missed along with suggestions for the various config files
     
  2. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    Speaking from experience as one of 4 Administrators for my gaming community, there's nothing wrong with giving out a little more power to the moderators. For one thing, as a personal opinion, I believe all moderators should have the power to change/set the next map; I feel like that should be a given regardless...

    But secondly I'll vote no specifically because I know reinstalling is a good deal of work (speaking from experience). And from what I've seen the server runs fine, there are just some inconsistencies here and there. But it's not broken by any means, so why fix what isn't broken?

    And thirdly, I don't own or contribute to the server's management or financial support--meaning, what right do I have to say OMG THE SERVER SUCKS FIX IT NAO! I don't really have the right to complain.

    EDIT: And most of those things you've listed can just be updated, no need to completely reinstall it...
     
  3. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    the things ive listed are the things that are working right now, otherwise they would not be listed in the inclusion of the new server <_<

    from my personal experience, i find its far easier to simply start over then to try and fix everything that goes wrong. In all the time ive been on this site someone has always been wrong with the server, always, i mean look at some of the old gameday threads, there has been at least one crash on most of them, and i can recall one of them where immortal has said something along the lines of omg the server didn't crash this time, that is by no means normal

    the reinstall is primarily for the purpose of consistency, if its a fresh install, then when something goes wrong we will be able to assume that one of the recent changes has caused it, not that it might be one of the old bugs. Personally i happen to think that sm is causing the problems (at this point lag) and a wipe of that with a fresh install of sm should do alot to fix the problems, but again, wiping everything guarantees the problems will be fixed or at least that they can be said to not be the fault of the server but the server company.

    And, in theory it is the community server and as such the community should have a say in how it is run.

    Provided an reinstall is not done the steps to verify the problems would be as follows:
    1) run tracert on the server under high load and at various times of the day from a few different people to check for significant spikes, if there are then the server company needs to be contacted, if not then proceed to step two
    2) have the config files examined for any anomalies, and test a variety of different settings, if this changes nothing then proceed to step 3
    3) check sm and metamod for the list of mods on the server and confirm that some old deleted mods do not have files kicking around, or are still there and being unused, or if some of the settings might be slowing the server, if removing these does nothing then move to the next step
    4) remove metamod and sourcemod completely, restart the server then do a fresh install of the two, with updated versions if possible, if this does nothing then move to next step
    5) reinstall the server...

    i find just reinstalling the server looks more attractive to me...
    maybe try the tracerts beforehand
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  4. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    umm...holy crap, this is quite ugly

    Tracing route to 233.93.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com [72.233.93.233]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.2
    2 * * * Request timed out.
    3 10 ms 11 ms 8 ms rc1ar-ge5-0-0-11.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.189.146
    ]
    4 23 ms 24 ms 33 ms rc2bb-pos0-0-2-0.vc.shawcable.net [66.163.77.222
    ]
    5 28 ms 27 ms 28 ms rc1wt-pos4-0-0.wa.shawcable.net [66.163.76.126]

    6 28 ms 28 ms 26 ms te-3-4.car3.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.71.152.25]
    7 35 ms 35 ms 36 ms ae-31-51.ebr1.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.68.105.30]

    8 43 ms 38 ms 31 ms ae-1-100.ebr2.Seattle1.Level3.net [4.69.132.18]

    9 78 ms 71 ms 71 ms ae-2.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.54]
    10 72 ms 71 ms 76 ms ae-1-100.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.37]
    11 81 ms 88 ms 75 ms ae-2.ebr2.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.132.106]
    12 80 ms 77 ms 86 ms ae-62-62.csw1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.136.138]

    13 149 ms 211 ms 219 ms ae-12-69.car2.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.19.4]
    14 78 ms 85 ms 86 ms DATABANK-HO.car2.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.71.170.2]

    15 76 ms 86 ms 76 ms 66.18.0.138.databank.com [66.18.0.138]
    16 * * * Request timed out.
    17 76 ms 75 ms 76 ms 233.93.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com [72.2
    33.93.233]

    so...ignore 2 my modem simply refuses to be pinged, there are also good odds that it whats happening with 16
    9 has a rather large jump, but the new ping seems to be sustained, so that is probably not much of an issue, however number 13 is a huge issue and may constitute much of the lag, so i don't know, some other people try a tracert and see if that same host still fails
     
  5. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    The server desperately needs to be fixed, and I'd be inclined to say a fresh install would do it some good. I like the idea of the community writing the config, motd, and server name, that way it will be what the community wants (and a good way to get everyone involved).
     
  6. Queops

    Queops L2: Junior Member

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    I make Nineaxis words, my words.
     
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  7. drp

    aa drp

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    well if nineaxis says so, then it definitely needs to be done! :p

    ill talk to djive and immortal and see if they have any problems with this, and if not, ill take care of it soon and give the server a little more attention than its gotten in the past.
     
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  8. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    I certainly wouldn't mind giving it a fresh install. Though I've only experienced minor lag when changing maps, and that's recently. Mods all have the same access. Setting the next map is just a plugin file that I didn't think to add, but can do so easily enough. I use firefox, and motd's are ie-based, so they never show up for me. What exactly needs to change about it?
     
  9. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Last time I looked it was blank or just said Welcome
     
  10. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    You haven't ever experienced the small lag spikes that lead up to the 15-second disconnects? D: Play a little more, we assure you it is problematic.

    Same here.
     
  11. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    motds are html based, it "should" display the same in all browsers
     
  12. teddyruxpin

    teddyruxpin Sr. Hygiene Technician

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    The motd.txt file that TF2 uses is meant to be plain text that is then rendered as HTML. It basically does an include and pulls in the text and adds it to chalk board texture you see when you join.

    For your other posts. I really do not see how reinstalling srcds will fix the issues you are having when a simple review of the current install can fix the issues. Simply running hldsupdate on the host will verify that all files are correct and updated. Anything that is not correct or has been modified with the exeception of the server.cfg is automatically overwritten.

    When it comes to sourcemod and metamod there is ways you can view the logs to see if there is specific plugins causing issues or if there is an issues with SM / MM itself. I use both and have very few problems when it comes to using them on my TF2 hosts and its been pretty stable with my L4D hosts even know its alpha code.

    The ping times you posted for the traceroutes need to be looked at with a grain of salt. By default providers such as Layered Tech and Level 3 will set a lower priority on ICMP traffic so it will process the ping replies after all other traffic has passed. IE that means that using a ICMP ping to check UDP traffic responses is not the best method especially if your doing only a single count trace. For more accurate results check out smokeping or mtr (matts traceroute) MTR has an option for using UDP packets for the pings and will show you a count and response time for each hop and allow you to set a limit. IE run 100 pings and then give you a deeper view of the results.

    As for the host crashing during game day that can be caused by bad map design or bad plugins on the host or just simple user errors. Reviewing the logs on the host will tell you what the 'true' cause is and you can fix the cause or build tools to work around it. IE a simple process that checks to see if the srcds is responding. If not automatically restart and load a known good map.

    As for the lag or disconnects during map changes that is normal for TF2 and a known bug and also occurs on L4D. Supposedly Vavle has a fix for this in testing now and will likely be released with the next TF2 srcds update (maybe tonight or thursday).

    If you want I will gladly look into the current configurations and give it a once over to make sure its all working as expected. DrPepper and others know how to reach me on Steam or via email and I do believe I still have root to the host.

    -Teddy
     
  13. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    it has already been done, so there is no point complaining about other problems

    ill admit i agree with you that srcds re-install is likely to do nothing, but that is of course when you host the server yourself, or if the server provider gives you access to the update tool, which for example gameservers does not, I had similar problems with my server at first, and they decided a re-install was the best bet. And on that note, the re-install some people are thinking of, namely erasing everything and running hlds update tool is not how a server provider does it, they have backups of a freshly installed server that they just copy into your server after erasing everything, takes maybe half an hour depending on how quickly they can get around to it.

    I was not suggesting that sourcemod and metamod themselves were bugged, but one of the plugins we have.

    As for the tracert results, i meant to correct that, I ran a few more test and didn't notice any kind of consistent results, was about to post that when my internet got turned off.

    I never mentioned lag during map change, that is obviously common, though ill admit ive never seen disconnects often enough to call them common. I was referring to lag spikes during the game...constantly...
     
  14. drp

    aa drp

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    one thing it does do is give us a clean slate. NO ONE should ever argue with a clean slate.
     
  15. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    exactly, tis the reason i put a new os on my comp every few months