Sedgwick

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by PL-7764, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Since Clandestine is a mess to work with in Hammer thanks to weird brush dimensions and Widow's Peak has horrendous scaling issues, I've decided to shelf both projects for now (probably to be rebuilt from scratch later, with a similar layout for Clandestine and an all-new layout and probable different name for Widow's Peak) and put some ideas I've developed while working on them, as well as the knowledge I've gained about TF2 mapping from both, to use in a brand new map. I think the scaling here is proper for once. :p

    Sedgwick is a 5 CP map set in a trainyard much like that seen in Well. It's a little smaller than Well or Granary, but I think it's okay (haven't tested it with a large number of people - I'll submit to gameday soon). Same objectives as a standard 5 CP, and hopefully a clear direction of where to go and where each doorway leads thanks to the various signs I've added.

    Current things I want to know about most:

    -Does scaling seem proper? I think the distance between points is good here (it's undergone several adjustments before the release of a1), but I want outside opinions. I also want to know if vertical distance feels right everywhere.
    -Are paths clear enough? The bases each have four doors on the front, two leading into the base and two leading down to the train tracks underneath the central CP (no trains yet - those will come later). I want to know if they're marked well enough.
    -Is there enough health/ammo? I put some in, but I'm not sure if it's too little or too much.
    -Any suggestions on how I could "fix" the upper decks on each base to be less 2fort-ey? Currently they're basically the same as the sniper decks on 2fort, and I don't want this map to be disliked for the same reasons 2fort is. Any ideas how to improve those areas? I'd rather not remove them because then gameplay would become very flat, with little vertical gameplay in the center.
    -Ideas for alternate routes in to the final CPs? There's only one way into either team's warehouse right now, and I'm unsure of where I could put a second route that wouldn't prove too out-of-the-way to defend or too advantageous for the attackers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  2. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Yay trains :D
    I shall look forward to a gameday, and will probably download and have a quick look through myself tomorrow to voice my initial opinion.
     
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  3. FreeLance_FoX

    FreeLance_FoX L6: Sharp Member

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    I love how visually dense this map is already, even in alpha. I also really appreciate the design of the CPs, they all look rather well-thought-out already.

    I'll definitely give this a run-through later, good luck though! :3
     
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  4. gamemaster1996

    gamemaster1996 L13: Stunning Member

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    Hmm this overly reminds me of well... w8 a sec that official, this map deserves loads
     
  5. alecom

    alecom L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Right, just so you know, vertical distances seem fine to me, the distance between points felt short but comfortable - would need a playtest to see how it goes.

    SOLID_VPHYSICS static prop with no vphysics model! (models/props_vehicles/train_flatcar_bed.mdl)
    SOLID_VPHYSICS static prop with no vphysics model! (models/props_vehicles/train_flatcar_bed.mdl)
    SOLID_VPHYSICS static prop with no vphysics model! (models/props_vehicles/train_caboose.mdl)
    SOLID_VPHYSICS static prop with no vphysics model! (models/props_forest/train_tunnel_01.mdl)
    SOLID_VPHYSICS static prop with no vphysics model! (models/props_trainyard/train_loader001.mdl)


    You will need to make your own clips for these if they are in playable areas.

    Kay, the final cap! The two only exits from spawn are pretty close enough and on the same level with nothing between them that it would be fairly easy for a demoman to camp -something intended I have no idea, but personally I hate spawncampness
    [​IMG]

    Could do with more lighting in the final area (please!)
    [​IMG]

    There's only one route in to the final area - while it seems like this is a small map, only one route to the area is not good ):
    Not sure what to suggest, so see how it plays.
    [​IMG]

    I like this window in the forward spawn!
    [​IMG]

    Please make it clearer that this ledge is not accessible (or make it accessible) since I tried to drop on to it from the carriage to get to the other side and fell down here.
    [​IMG]

    This is one of the models which had no clipping. If you insist on having it different to the other side, either make it so a scout can jump on both or neither. Not one or the other.
    [​IMG]

    This allows both engineers *and* scouts on to the trains! The other side has not the luxury. Also you can see the ledge on the right that I thought I could walk along
    [​IMG]

    The reason I thought I could is because I can get behind it! But the clip goes diagonally to throw me off!
    [​IMG]

    Can get up on these things - as a soldier and demoman for sure. I don't know if you can with a scout FaN, but not sure this is a good idea to be accessible.
    [​IMG]

    Otherwise, looking forward to seeing how it plays! I really liked the feel of the middle area
     
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  6. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Good 'n thorough. I like it! :)

    Several of those props are outside of the gameplay area entirely, but I've moved the caboose outside as well and replaced both it and the log car across the area with flatbed cars that will hold ... something. Still thinking of what to put on them. Possibly a brush-based crate, like near the BLU final cap.
    I've added blockbullets brushes around the two non-solid flatbed cars and set them both to "Not Solid" - same with all props outside the map, which includes all the other non-solid ones.

    I hadn't thought about camp-ability on the final CP. I'll try to spread those two exits out. Maybe I can put them so they're flanking the point, then have 2 resupply rooms so RED doesn't have to run as far to the main one behind the warehouse. Would that work well?

    K, more lighting. I guess some wall-mounted lights would work - the ceiling is much too high to mount much on. :p It's currently home to the only lights in there.

    As I said in the original post, I'm a bit stumped as to where to position alternate routes to the final point. The area behind the fences is undoubtedly where such a thing will go, but all the locations I've considered so far make it far too easy for scouts to dart in and be on the point uninterrupted by the defenders.

    That apparently accessible ledge now has the same high fences on it as are at the ends of the bases. I would've done this before, but I was unsure of how well they'd fit. Eagle-eyed players will see that BLU's engine will take part of the fence with it if it pulls forward, but you can't always have perfect balance between functionality and details I guess... :p

    Those fences now make it quite obvious that you can't walk on that ledge (they conform to the shape of the player clip). Still working on what to put over the cars on either side to show that you can't get behind. More fence might work, but they don't have a bottom side, so looking up at them and seeing that they lack a bottom texture might seem awkward.

    I've made the power line structure thing in the middle no longer solid and encased the beams holding it up in brushes that stretch to the skybox. It actually looks alright, but it needs something more...

    Thanks again for thorough feedback! :)
     
  7. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Finally updated to a2. The reason I say it that way is because I literally had at least 2 versions each day since my last post here that I thought would be ready for release, but each time I found one more thing that made me think "Whoa - this needs fixing before I can possibly release this!" :O Most of them involve the fact that engineers can possibly jump from their battlements to the boxcars. I tried for a while to fix this, but finally realized that instead of stopping them, I could simply stop them building things on top of the cars by putting func_nobuild on top of them... So I did. It's still moderately easy to get on top of the cars if you do it just right, but now a sentry can't be planted up there and trap the other team in their base. :)

    See changelog for a detailed list of everything that's changed.

    Still no alternate route to the final CP for either team, because I don't know where to put it yet. Barring any glaring exploits/issues, this version will likely be the first one to go to Gameday, from which I'll hopefully gain some ideas for a second route.

    EDIT: Because I haven't posted one yet, here's a full overhead view (gray space outside the map is currently unpurposed and will be used for detail structures):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009