Rum

Ravidge

Grand Vizier
aa
May 14, 2008
1,544
2,818
Do you have any examples?

And I already did a lot of reworking of the paths between the points, I'm not opposed to that. I just need suggestions.

Here is one:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2010.08.11-23.36.27.jpg going for C, finding B, going round in circles until I realise I should have gone back the way I came.

and some other stuff:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2010.08.11-23.30.51.png this door leads to everything. I have no idea what to expect beyond this door. And when I DO go through it there's no less than 14 round red signs telling me where to go next. None of which I bother with since there is a pyro shooting at me, I attack and follow him and bam, I'm lost.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1281220/Team_Fortress_2-2010.08.11-23.25.36.jpg
None of the paths look like the main one. Which causes teams to split up, which also causes them to get lost.
 

Fredrik

L6: Sharp Member
Aug 15, 2009
376
219
Some things I think you should change.

Seal the hole in the floor and add a bigger window that you can get through.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3029298/cp_rum_a100000.jpg

Kinda ugly with a square hole in the wall. Seal it or something else.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3029298/cp_rum_a100002.jpg

Take away the ammo from here,
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3029298/cp_rum_a100004.jpg
And put it here.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3029298/cp_rum_a100005.jpg

And erease this clip brush.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3029298/cp_rum_a100007.jpg

And I felt like almost all ammo and health were pretty hard to find.

Otherwise, nice map. I thought it was to many routes though, that made me feel lost sometimes.
That's all!
 

lucky

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
May 25, 2009
583
145
Probably going to repeat a few things that have already been said, but here we go.


I would make this a mini ramp just to connect it cleaner. Cut the metal platform off where the brick pillar sticks out, and (mini)ramp it down from there to the doorway.


Just get rid of this part, and make the wooden brush brickwork instead. The resupply does not need to be there, just bring it forward.


They both go to A, but they look like they have completely different access to the point. Which one is the main, which one is quickest? It's not exactly clear, but I would assume most people took the left as it's the closest.


Already said, but this. What is this meant to be?! Get rid of it or make it something purposeful! It's not even very accessible right now.


lol. Just.... what Ravidge said.


FAR too many signs, not a pretty sight. You should not have to rely on signs for a player to know where to go - they are just an aid.


This door is huge! I think it could do with some scaling down.


Okay so, dropping down from red's spawn thing. FOUR DOORS. One doesn't even open at the start, but you can't tell that from looking. Avoid crossroads like this. Maximum entrances/exits should be 3! Dropping down in to the middle of a cross junction like that is not nice either.


Okay, so here's what I would do if it was my map:
Red is the current, that I feel is bad. The light blue indicates the new building (with a poorly illustrated ledge), with the arrows showing the possible routes. The limey part is stairs, getting rid of that dead end part underneath.


Again, what I would do. Take it or leave it, up to you.
Red = scrap/out of bounds.
I moved blu spawn over to the right in to that building. The area to the south really doesn't have much use, as blu can exit north and bypass any defence red has there. The limey box is meant to be a new building, with the point on the upper level, in comparison to the current level of the point. Outside of that limey building, I would have EVERYTHING south of it outside, rather than making it a map of winding corridors, and if need be separating it up with smaller buildings.
 
Apr 19, 2009
4,460
1,722
Well, I got lost everywhere. Needs more signs. - A lot of us couldn't even find cap A as Red. :(
Can people stop saying this!? I mean for god sake signs do hardly anything to improve gameplay/map flow! No one looks at them. The few seconds it takes people to read them just gets in the way. (That assumes that people even look at them and they don't)

I am starting to rage about how people use them as a crutch to hide the fact that the layout has big problems (yes I can see those have been pointed out for this map idk).

How about this; ban signs for alpha maps. So then if people keep saying "I am lost" you keep working on that layout until b1+ when people don't need them anyway!

/rant

Ugh I really need to put this into better words instead of just raging about it. :/
 
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902

I like you. I'll see what I can do with this. CP A is likely not moving, but I'll certainly do the second to last suggestion and try to fix that "crossroads" as well. Also that giant door is supposed to be like a garage door of sorts. Large enough for trunks to get in. :D Also, thanks pytholos and Rav, I'll fix those things too. Yay for you guys being helpful! <3
 
Last edited:
Sep 12, 2008
1,272
1,141
Banning signs makes just no sense at all. I watch for signs and i'm sure there are more people than just me who do so when playing a confusing map.

And by the way: signs don't work like this example:
There is a sign above a doorway pointing to the right and the player thinks "Ok, there's a sign pointing to the right - so I should go right" NO. This almost never happens.
But the player will move almost automatically to the direction the arrow is pointing (I'm not talking about <-A B-> signs, but about one simple arrow). Because people who've been playing the game for some time will know that arrows lead to the goal of the map, or at least lead them in the right direction.
 
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902
Banning signs makes just no sense at all. I watch for signs and i'm sure there are more people than just me who do so when playing a confusing map.

And by the way: signs don't work like this example:
There is a sign above a doorway pointing to the right and the player thinks "Ok, there's a sign pointing to the right - so I should go right" NO. This almost never happens.
But the player will move almost automatically to the direction the arrow is pointing (I'm not talking about <-A B-> signs, but about one simple arrow). Because people who've been playing the game for some time will know that arrows lead to the goal of the map, or at least lead them in the right direction.


I completely agree. People follow arrows, not letters. I'm attempting to take that into account with the new version (which I'll be releasing soon, in anticipation of it being tested this friday.)
 
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902
Huzzah! Big 'ol release today. LOTS of changes.

cp_redrum_a11:
Name changed to cp_redrum



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Redrum/A11/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_redrum_A110015.jpg
Opened up the area around CP A significantly. Building on left is gone.



(Neglected to take a pic of this. Can sort of see it here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Redrum/A11/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_redrum_A110010.jpg
Changed the lower exit area of bluespawn significantly.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Redrum/A11/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_redrum_A110009.jpg
Moved the drophole on the battlements near A.
Made the window bigger on the battlements near A.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Redrum/A11/ScreenshotsSmall/cp_redrum_A110026.jpg
Reworked the right side of CP B. Moved the stairs and removed the circular wall.


Moved/removed/added some signs. Tried to make it less confusing. Likely unsuccessfully.

Edit: Oh yeah, can someone change the thread name to "Redrum"? Thanks. :)
 
Last edited:
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902
Welp, to most everyone's demand, I am redoing everything but the CPs on Redrum.

zmo9V.png


Green is outside, Grey is inside. Anything black is solid. Anything white is outside but elevated above ground level. Left is Floor 1, Right is Floor 2. It only covers CP A, a transitional battle area between A and B and CP B. I'll be doing something similar for CP C soon.

I doubt it will all fit together like this perfectly, but it will look similar to the picture.

Here's the plan for CP B, the transition area between B and C and CP C. The Darker the green, the higher up the terrain. The black circles in this one are rocks. I didn't bother getting into more detail with C as it will be staying the same. Also where it says "Under" I mean you can go under those buildings as they are above ground level with empty terrain below them.

z7TYo.png
 

lucky

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
May 25, 2009
583
145
Interesting changes you have made, I await the next release!
I think C will be fine for now, and you might only really need to add/change one route later on for balance. I know what you mean about it not fitting perfectly together as pictured :p the number of times I've drawn something down, thought "this will be awesome" and then actually gotten/tried to have it mapped out...
 
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902
I like the lighting contrast, but the dark orange section would normally bleed into that hemisphere of the sky, or at least would color the rest of the horizon, unless it's solely a city lighting that up.

I used a reference photo. When the sun is down that low, that the only thing leaking through is the light, it only circles the sky about halfway. The moon's light is essentially brighter at that point, so it overpowers the sun's light wherever it is.
 
Jan 20, 2010
1,317
902
Just have to say, guys, thanks for the feedback here. Was incredibly surprised by the amount of it. However, I'm taking a break from Redrum for a good while and going to work on a PL map. Again, thanks for the feedback, negative and positive.
 

LeSwordfish

semi-trained quasi-professional
aa
Aug 8, 2010
4,102
6,597
I took a bunch ofscreenshots, so i'll chuck them up in the spirit of "eh"

cp_redrum_a120000.jpg


I dont know wether people can shoot through those windows or not. And they're kind of ugly, that texture is really big.

cp_redrum_a120005.jpg


I dont like those supports... They dont look very supportive.

cp_redrum_a120007.jpg


You can walk in this, but you have to crouch to enter.


Though overall, very nice.