Rum

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Leminnes, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Redrum

    [​IMG]

    About

    This be my... forth map? Probably can't tell. Haha :p Well, it's a 3 point A/D map in the style of Gorge (One stage, A->B->C.) The layout is pretty compact and meant to be fairly quick to go from one side to the other. The theme, at the moment, will most likely be outdoor Gorge-style and interior Spytech. Just to give a short description of each point:

    A: Sunken slightly into the ground and surrounded by walls and catwalks, it should be a bit of a challenge to take and hold.
    B: Elevated high above the ground, the challenge is to get to the top and stay there.
    C: Confined in a small room, the elevated CP is close to the spawn but has many ways to get on it. The challenge here is to get on it and stay on it.

    I did not intend for the map to be easy, but I already have some changes planned to give the attackers more of an edge on A and C and give defenders a quicker route to CP B itself. I'm still new to mapping and have yet to really finish a map, so I'm hoping this will be my first.

    ^Need to change all of this eventually.

    THANKS

    Obligitory thanks for the people who make mapping easier for all of us:
    Boojum Snark, obviously, for his Ultimate Mapping Resource Pack which makes mapping easier for all us mappers.
    Acegikmo for his environment gallery. Also incredibly useful.
    Ravidge for his Lighting Library, saving me gobs of time.
    Grazr for his incredible guides which, while very long, are also very useful.

    Personal Thanks:
    Boylee, especially, for the advice and inspiration all along the way.
    Gooba the Viking -- I HUGE thanks to this guy. Gave me the inspiration and paintover for C and has helped me in many ways, including using his space textures from his artpass map. Awesome guy.
    Seba, Rexy, Moose, and Wondwi for all your help and kind words.
    Everyone at Playstuff.net for testing my map and helping it improve in many ways.
    Everyone at tf2maps.net for the incredible resources.
    And Flame, for telling me to raise up C way back in A2.

    Screenshots: Link
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  2. Okrag

    aa Okrag Wall Staples

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    That last point looks like it would be frustrating with airblast pyros.
     
  3. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    I had thought about that, but I'm not sure if that's true. I'd have to try it out in a playtest first, I think.
     
  4. E.B.

    E.B. L1: Registered

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    I didn't see anything critically game-breaking per se, but there were a couple of issues that you should probably address before testing the map out.

    Both of these are in blue's spawn. I didn't take screenshots but I think the areas are pretty easily described.
    1) You can crawl underneath the ramp on the left side; doing so puts you in a little no-drawed room.
    2) You can set up engineer stuff in the narrow passageway leading to blue's left spawn exit, but only in the area where there's a fence on one side. The ending room with the gate and the area inside the spawn proper don't allow buildings.
     
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  5. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    1 I can fix easy. 2 was intended. They can build teleporters in there if they want. I don't see anything particularly gamebreaking from that. But, if it proves to be too powerful for the attackers, I'll remove it. (Also, red is SUPPOSED to be able to build in the front of their spawn as well, but that doesn't seem to be working. :V )
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  6. Dr. ROCKZO

    Dr. ROCKZO L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    This looks really good!
     
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  7. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Aww, thanks Rockzo, you made my day. Too bad it will probably be torn left and right when I finally get it playtested (especially if Flame is there. :O)
     
  8. E.B.

    E.B. L1: Registered

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    We'll see how that turns out then, I guess. It just came off as such a random area to build in that I assumed it was an oversight.

    Also, I found a seam in one of your walls:[​IMG]

    You can't see it from the angle of this shot but it's where the line of bullet holes is.

    Here's a screenshot where you can actually see it:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Yeah, I knew about that. It's not showing up in Hammer which makes me think it's an invalid solid, but that's not showing up in errors. I'm probably just going to remake the wall. Thanks for showing me. :D
     
  10. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

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    :facepalm: How did you make an invalid solid whilst making a rectangular wall?

    In other news: I think the layout of this is interesting and has the potential to play well. Also I like the change of bridge at B from the version I saw last. A lot.

    Oh and I can has ramp onto C plz? Do it for the avoidance of rage, you know it makes sense ;)

    Hopefully my weird timezone and work schedule will coincide with a playtest soon.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  11. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    D: I'm just not sure WHERE to put a ramp. And would putting one there make the two other "entrances" basically unneeded. Perhaps not, but I'm still unsure about it. :| Enough people have suggested/complained about it so I'll see what I can do. :/
     
  12. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Too tired to take pictures or anything. Anyway, I did what so many people asked and made a ramp up to CP C. I hope it doesn't make CP C feel too cramped now.

    cp_rum_a1a:

    Added spiral up to CP C.
    Spiced up CP A a bit.
    Fixed some odd problems.
     
  13. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  14. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Updated to A2:

    cp_rum_a2:

    Added a large area to blue spawn exit moving CP A farther from the spawn.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A2/cp_rum_a20005.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A2/cp_rum_a20008.jpg

    Opened up B a bit on the side.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A2/cp_rum_a20013.jpg
    Added some props to B.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4222914/TF2Maps/Rum/A2/cp_rum_a20011.jpg
    Made the ceilings of C's hallways higher.
    Removed some signs.
    Fixed some clipping.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  15. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Some stuff that feels sloppy:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20000.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20001.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20003.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20009.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20010.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20012.jpg
    I think the map would give a better impression if everything was properly aligned. It almost feels like a map made without grid-snap on.

    While I was doing it I figured I'd do some further analysis and point out things I felt were problematic but not really reasons I rejected it.

    The pathways are a mixture of too straight and too convoluted, as strange as that is. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/98931/pics/cp_rum_a20005.jpg

    The entire right exit from blue spawn is long and almost useless now (you moved the spawn since a1, right?) and will really only be a route to escape the lockdown on the other exit.

    When assaulting A you are pretty much forced through a severe choke point (1) which a sniper over here can see entirely along with the boxes to the upper route. Plus a sentry over here would go up very fast and be maintained easily with that full ammo, reinforcing the lockdown on the chokepoint.

    If anyone chooses to climb the boxes to the upper level they still have to contend with anyone waiting at the top ready to pick them off as soon as they stick up. (like a sniper here)

    The position here seems too good for defending soldiers and demomen to rain down fire upon people coming out. (that block being "loose" from the wall also feels sloppy)

    When it comes to going for B you end up running into pretty convoluted paths to get there. Going all the way across the zone and climbing up around the edge to get to the point is weird, and the hallway (2) from A is long and easily covered by people standing on the point itself, since they have a wall of protection from people coming the other way. The path that loops up around through the bridge probably won't get much use by blu since it exposes them to fire in the cp zone and only puts them in the aforementioned hallway.

    I think B might also play out odd because once the defense is removed and blu starts taking the point then the returning red players become the attackers, forced to use the same odd/disadvantaged routes. Perhaps the purple path should be available to them only during the defense of B. (adjust spawntimes as necessary to balance the new shortness)

    Finally when we get to C, the hallway (3) is really tight and going to be spammed with explosives and likely a sniper peering down it from back near the point. A death gauntlet if there ever was one. The other route puts blu in a much better position, but it's fairly long and feels awkward to loop around like that.
    In addition, both entries to the C area can be seen by one (likely more in play) sentry.

    What to do about all this? I don't know, it's a lot of stuff. If I think of anything I suppose I'll post again.
     
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  16. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Yeah, booj, that's a lot of stuff to take in. I'll see what I can do.

    The straight corridors and complicated corridors were kind of the idea behind some of them (long straight corridors are main battle areas while the complicated ones were generally supposed to be alternative routes for spies and other types of ambushes.) While all of your complaints are completely valid, I'm trying to decide if all of them are just things that people should deal with (as things like dealing with a sniper when getting to a place of advantage or having to push to the last point as much as you can) and parts of how the game on the map would play out.

    I'll see if I can make the back exit to the blue spawn more advantageous, although having it as an alternative to the other being locked down doesn't seem like the worst of uses.

    I do love the idea for the purple route, so I am sure to add that.

    As for B, perhaps I'll add a simpler, easier way to get up to the CP (other than the purple path) primarily for offense.

    As for the misaligned stuff, some (or most) of it was known and I planned to fix it in the future. A lot of it came from the shifting of the spawn from A.

    Aaaaanyway, I greatly appreciate your input. I'll do as much as I can to fix any of it, as most of them honestly seem easily fixable once I think of a solution. (Like the choke point for assaulting A can be resolved with just deleting some brushes and making a sentry gun less powerful in the one spot.)

    If you think of anything, please DO post. As much as I appreciate criticism to death, suggestions are even better. :D

    Edit: Also, booj, Let me know when you're not busy and if you want to discuss some of the issues you had. Maybe we can work out some solutions, if you're willing to. >_> I don't want to bother you too much. Especially during Portal.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  17. honorum646

    honorum646 L6: Sharp Member

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    What he said about access to point "B" was what I was trying to explain to you. It's almost necessary to fix up the paths there. It takes a full 7 seconds to run from below the point to the point itself, where as a soldier or demo gets up there easily.
     
  18. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    Oh, when you were criticizing I kind of assumed you were doing it jokingly. :p
     
  19. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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    A3 released:

    Made the back entrance to blue more appealing in a couple ways:

    [​IMG]
    -Isolated it from the front area

    [​IMG]
    -added a ramp that goes to an elevated area giving more direct access to CP A.

    [​IMG]
    Changed the area around CPA a bit, shortening some sniper lines and opening up the choke point a bit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Added a direct route from Red spawn to CP B only after CP A is captured. (From that gate to the room in the second Screen)

    [​IMG]
    Added a ramp from the bottom level up to CP B. (on the right side of the Screen)

    Cleaned up some messy brushes.

    Fixed some lighting.
     
  20. Leminnes

    aa Leminnes

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