Rotational Symmetry Logic + am I Over-Ambitious?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by VivvyWivvy, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. VivvyWivvy

    VivvyWivvy L1: Registered

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    Hiya! I'm new to this community and the Hammer editor (though I have some 3D modelling and level design experience), and I am trying to create my first map, a King of the Hill with a point in a mountaintop observatory. I'm having several issues in drafting, however:
    The major issue is that I can't figure out how to make my map rotationally symmetrical. One of the features I would like, is that the telescope hatch is open. This way, the base of the telescope can provide splash damage over the point, and the telescope opening could be a potential entrance onto the point for skilled rocket/sticky jumpers. Additionally, I had envisioned a Lakeside-like pointside building for a flank, which I would see at the end of a vaulted observation deck.
    Since there could only be one telescope and opening over the point, is it possible for the map to be rotationally symmetrical? And if it has to use mirror symmetry, how can I make up for this? Or should I save this idea for use in another game mode (likely A/D or a gravelpit/standin-like CP).
    The last thing I was wondering is if this is an over-ambitious idea for a first map. I know my first map likely won't be very good, but I really would like to do this observatory idea justice. If this is a stretch for a first map, it'd probably be bests to know now.
    Thank you so much for your help!
     
  2. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    Telescopes are generally facing one direction at a time, meaning mirrored symmetry could be done, rotational symmetry could not.

    Well here's an idea. The telescope could start off closed (with minimal effect on symmetry). Then you could open the hatch once the point is captured. You could then reorient the telescope in a new direction each time the control point is captured. For example:
    face red when blu controls the point, face blu when red controls the point. That way, your map will never actually be symmetric at any given point in time but you will still have gameplay symmetry (and balance).

    Koth is never as symmetric as you may think anyway. The map is always favoring the team that doesn't control the point by adjusting respawn times. Your map could create an advantage for the losing team by creating a new attack opening.

    Is it too ambitious? Not really, I'm thinking just challenging enough to keep you interested and engaged. You should be able to address things one by one and push through. There's going to be a lot of things to take in but take your time and do a lot of reading.
     
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  3. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar Live demonstration of the hairy ball theorem

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    Pseudo-mathematically, note that in this case you have two points shared by the sides of the map (the actual CP and the flank), which leaves you with no choice but to implement mirroring.
    Rotational symmetry is perhaps harder because it only allows the teams to share one point (well, technically, a vertical line :)), and that point ought to be the CP; whereas in a mirrored map you can share an entire frontline. Coming from a design background, it should be easy to understand.
    P.S. I really like fubar's idea! Very creative.
     
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  4. VivvyWivvy

    VivvyWivvy L1: Registered

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    Thank you both so much!! I really appreciate this advice and will do my best to implement (I really do like the idea of the telescope rotating). Also oh my goodness it's absolutely insane to see Fubar commenting on my first ever post on here I've been freaking out!!
     
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