Relay

CP Relay b3

  • Site Migration: See bugs? Report them here. Want something changed or have an idea? Suggest it here.
Apr 13, 2009
728
cp_relay is a single-stageA/D map.

BLU contests a RED satellite relay station, hidden in plain sight in the middle of a larger industrial area. BLU must must capture several control points of varying interest, that culminates inside the RED base proper.

The plan is to have 2 stage : a first standard-size stage with 2 cps, and then a second and final stage with 3 cps. I feel this format allows for a lot of variety, while not having as many downtimes as 3-stage maps. The final stage's larger size provides a different challenge for both teams, as BLU must keep pushing forward after the second cap and RED must know when to rellocate in time to defend the next cap.

The map is now single-stage, 3 control points, similar to manor/mountainlab, but with forward spawns and less out-of-control line of sights.

Another difference with the standard set by dustbowl is in the rules. Respawn times are less stacked against RED for the most part, and the countdown timer is also less generous with BLU, with each capture only giving 3 minutes of additional time. This makes for faster-paced rounds and means that BLU must be more decisive as they cannot afford to throw waves after waves of attackers against every point. On the other hand, while the cps themselves are defensible, the areas in between are not quite prone to the spam tactics that can win dustbowl. I'm trying to stay away from the narrow corridors of doom as much as possible.

Detailed changelog:

a2:
-added a forward spawn for RED so long as they are holding A. This allows them to put up a better fight on A even without teleporters. More importantly it means that some freshly respawned RED players will be ready to defend B when they lose A.
-added a forward spawn for BLU after they capture B. This is experimental, it may be overkill, or not, but I think the travel time from BLU spawn to C was outrageous, and C can be turtled quite efficiently given enough time to setup.
-increased capture time for B to 25 seconds. This should allow RED to better prepare for the final assault.
-decreased time awarded for cap B to 2 minutes.
-spawn times are now 8-4s. This is a significantly smaller spawn time advantage for BLU than in stock maps. BLU's spawn time now decreases when the timer reaches 2 minutes and decreases again when it reaches one minute (it resets to normal on a succesful capture). RED spawn times when defending C are still 10s (max).
-some paths will open and close as points are captured (basically, it discourages you from going in the wrong direction, to counter the disorienting effect of changing spawns).
-some early detailing tweaks
-stairs clipping

a3:
-Changed name to relay
-Removed BLU forward spawn because I can't figure out a good spot, so they'll have to walk or set up a tele.
-Shortened BLU's spawn times after cap B to make up for the lack of forward spawn.
-Rework of cap C area, more cover. Different detailing (no more symmetry).
-Added a huge landmark around cap C, visible from about anywhere in the map.
-Added a third exit to RED's spawn, on the ground level.
-Added cover/clutter props around B
-Added a small route between A and B's "yard"
-Some more signs, look at them.

a4:
-Removed some health spawns and reduced the size of others.
-Slight rework of cap A, more cover options, the upper ledge now extends all the way to the other building, providing a place that overlooks the entire cap area as well as one of the flanking routes for BLU.
-Removed one of the exits for BLU as it was almost never used due to being so far away from the spawn.
-Added a forward spawn for BLU, again. Hopefully this one works out well.
-More detailing experiments in the RED base :)
-One path now opens up between the right flanking route to B, and C, after B is captured (this is because this path became useless after capping B, and would confuse some people including the author)
-Some clipping issues with computer mainframes and stairs resolved.
+Known issues : hazardous cubemap manual manipulations resulting in local purple checkerboard sightings.:facepalm:
+In some cases, RED wins if BLU captures B during overtime ?...

b1:
-texture/detailing pass
-reduced catpure time for A and B a little
-tweaked spawn times and positions : red loses their forward spawn ten seconds after A is captured (reducing the chance for BLU to just steamroll through B unopposed right after capping A), red spawn times are maxed out 10s after B is captured.
-reduced initial timer to 4 minutes (down from 5)
-Increased time awarded for captures A and B to 3 minutes (up from 2)
-Added a hole in the wall in the warehouse at A
-Added crates over the window dropdown at A which means it's easier for players to stand there and shoot down, and it's now possible to put a sentry there for example.
-Line of sight and items tweaks around B and C

b2:
-skybox / light_env / fog changed
-detailing tweaks and polish
-added ambient sounds

b3 (contest release):
-moved blu spawn forward a bit to cut down useless walk times
-moved red spawn visualizers back a bit to prevent spamming the final point from the relative safety of the doorstep
-made forward spawns for both team re-enterable, now with resupply cabinets. Red forward spawn will teleport anyone still inside to the main red spawn shortly after it is deactivated.
-tweaked a lot of little things no-one will notice (cubemaps, lighting, lightmaps, props, graphic glitches, detail brushwork...)

Extra credit :
Construction pack assets by Construction packteam
Computer Screen Bank by Void & Rexy.
 
Last edited:
Sep 1, 2009
573
I feel like stabbing you for not putting in the 2 minutes of required thought for a good mapname. Other than that the map looks like a good a/d map. Bots are a good represntation of how a map may preform but Bots will always go for the cp unlike normal players who may go to the spawn and camp etc. So I look forward to a play test of this :D
 

Hanz

Ravin' Rabbid
aa
Jan 18, 2009
844
First jonahmap, now locmap..

STOP STEALING MY MAP NAME STYLE ;_;
 
Apr 13, 2009
728
I think BLU won every single round, fairly easily. This isn't exactly what I was expecting. The big difference with the bot playtests (appart from not generally acting stupid) is that BLU players can use spies efficiently.

I'm a little reluctant to put major choke points (as in blindfire-spammable) into the map because I don't think it's very fun, although it makes areas very defensible. I'm not sure what to do ?... Smaller spawn time advantage for BLU ? that goes a little against standard A/D design rules.
Giving RED a forward spawn behind B could do the trick, but I'd rather not use forward spawns for defenders... hmm...
 
Apr 13, 2009
728
a2:
-Added a forward spawn for RED so long as they are holding A. This allows them to put up a better fight on A even without teleporters. More importantly it means that some freshly respawned RED players will be ready to defend B when they lose A.
-Added a forward spawn for BLU after they capture B. This is experimental, it may be overkill, or not, but I think the travel time from BLU spawn to C was outrageous, and C can be turtled quite efficiently given enough time to setup.
-Increased capture time for B to 25 seconds. This should allow RED to better prepare for the final assault.
-Decreased time awarded for cap B to 2 minutes.
-Spawn times are now 8-4s. This is a significantly smaller spawn time advantage for BLU than in stock maps. BLU's spawn time now decreases when the timer reaches 2 minutes and decreases again when it reaches one minute (it resets to normal on a succesful capture). RED spawn times when defending C are still 10s (max).
-Some paths will open and close as points are captured (basically, it discourages you from going in the wrong direction, to counter the disorienting effect of changing spawns).
-Some early detailing tweaks
-Stairs clipping
 
Apr 13, 2009
728
Ok, so I haven't touched this in a while due to a bad case of demotivation, flu, and general lack of enthusiasm. I'm kind of torn on how to proceed next, if I should just restart everything or try to fix what I have now. From the feedback I've received and my personal analysis so far :

-I rather like point B how it is right now, some people didn't like it but I don't really get why (clusterfuck ? really ? it's fairly open for an A/D cp, I think)
-RED's forward spawn seems to work as intended, though the one-way door seemed to be confusing, and some people felt they needed to turn left and go to C. should probably make sure that path is not accessible at all.
-BLU's forward spawn was a failure, too small, too vulnerable to camping. I need to figure out a better placement.
-I have a hard time judging A. It seems to work well in that it provides a moderate challenge for the attackers, but I don't know if it's interesting enough.
-C was generally criticized for being too much of a big square room. I could argue that it's not unlike well's final cap but that's probably not helping my case at all, so um yeah. I guess I should rework this one from the ground up. I'd like this to feel kinda like gorge's B but not be a clone of it of course...
-dumptruck spam. guilty as hell.
-Overall it seems BLU wins every time. Barely. That's a rather satisfying outcome but not the most balanced...
-Round length might be a bit short (the timer starts at 5, then adds 2x2 minutes for the first captures, and BLU caps all 3 in that time). This could be "fixed" with the addition of another round, or it may be that BLU does not need to work hard enough to punch through, or it may be that RED can't put up a good enough defense due to not knowing the map in advance...

So that's about it, I guess what I'm looking for is any additional feedback and suggestions you can provide on any part of the map, from memory or just an offline run-through.
 

Sgt Frag

L14: Epic Member
May 20, 2008
1,443
Only played the map once and it was a while ago.

But looking again at C point screens.
it is a big open square.

How about some computer terminal 'walls'. Think last point of Waste as a good example. I think if you got rid of the details in that map it would be fairly similar. A big square room with balconies.
But it has walls of terminals to hide behind, etc...

Well is pretty big and open, but there is the glass wall out of spawn, so Red can't spam the point right out of spawn. Blu can't spam into spawn.
Gorge is pretty open too, but there are multiple levels, the balconies are smaller, you can hide a sentry under the ledge of the last point...

I think if you just add some details to C, and close off some of the balconies a bit, give both teams cover. That'll make it more interesting visually and it'll play better.
 
Apr 13, 2009
728
Yeah. Thanks a lot for the advice, I'm probably going to do that, rework what's already there to give players more options and cover, not remake the whole place.
 
Apr 13, 2009
728
An update. After trying a couple of layouts I was not happy with, I've decided to drop the ball on the idea of a stage 1, so 3 cps in a single stage it is. I've began detailing on what I already had, since I don't know how much I can actually spend mapping before the contest deadline.

Current WIP:

EDIT: outdated
 
Last edited:
Apr 13, 2009
728
Old:
cp_relay_b10028.jpg

New:
cp_relay_b20002.jpg

Newer, now with 50% lighter asphalte and a 32% smaller sun :p
cp_relay_b20001.jpg

Am I moving things in the right direction yet ?
 
Last edited:

Ezekel

L11: Posh Member
Dec 16, 2008
818
i'd say that your environmental lighting is friendlier in the newer one

however, your env_sun is MASSIVE... at least it seems overly large to me. consider reducing it a bit (maybe 75% of it's current size)