Ramp Angles Classes Can Climb

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Stormcaller3801, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    Due to a request for a map with a slide, I've been investigating the maximum angles that can be climbed. This mostly involved making very basic, fullbright maps with ramps and running up them to establish a range, then subdividing that range, and so on.

    All of my ramps were 50 HU wide, 100 HU tall, concrete texture, and used a variable length. It's worth noting that these numbers are not black and white- I measured based upon the minimum angle that a class could go up, and at times this required watching and realizing that the class was inching up the ramp about the rate of a Sniper crouching while zoomed in (i.e., 1). In other cases classes could transition from a flat plane to a ramp and get up a short distance, only to then stop or start to slide back down again. In yet other cases the class could not begin to ascend the ramp except at an oblique angle, but once on the ramp was able to climb it.

    I'm sharing this information mostly because I have it, and in some capacity or another other people may find it to be useful.

    Maximum Climbable Angle, by HU Integers:

    • Scout - 100 rise, 53 run (100/53)
    • Soldier - 100 rise, 60 run (5/3)
    • Pyro - 100 rise, 57 run (100/57)
    • Demoman - 100 rise, 59 run (100/59)
    • Heavy - 100 rise, 61 run (100/61)
    • Heavy, Spun Up - could not climb 100 rise, 80 run
    • Engineer - 100 rise, 57 run (100/57)
    • Medic - 100 rise, 57 run (100/57)
    • Sniper - 100 rise, 57 run (100/57)
    • Sniper, Zoomed In - could not climb 100 rise, 80 run
    • Spy - 100 rise, 57 run (100/57)

    Hopefully this comes in handy for someone besides myself.
     
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  2. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    I'm not quite sure what definition of "climb" you are going for here, so I'm just going to say what I know, as I feel this is at best misleading or at worst factually incorrect.

    The maximum angle that any class (actually any player in Source or Goldsrc) can walk up (and stand still on) is somewhere between 45.5678 and 45.5815 degrees, so for all practical purposes, 45 degrees, a 1:1 slope. This can be easily figured out using the Displacement Walkable :)dispwalk:) feature in Hammer which highlights displacement triangles that are too steep to be walked.

    The "up a short distance and slide back down" is merely the effects of momentum due to differing class speeds, and will rarely result in more vertical distance than simply jumping.
    All classes can "climb" steeper slopes at an extremely slow rate, as you've seen, but for all intents and purposes this can hardly be called a climb and only effectively stops your downward movement in exchange for very slippery movement across the slope, the "surf" effect. This can also be done at angles much steeper than what you have listed, which further confuses me as to what your numbers actually are about.
     
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  3. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    Well, what I mean by climb is that I took each class, placed them at the base of the ramp on a flat surface, and then held down W to move forward at the ramp. Each ramp was bordered by playerclip walls to ensure there was no surfing from one ramp to another, and if I could not walk directly up a ramp I changed my orientation to approach at an angle, when I could climb the ramp. Once I was able to get onto the ramp, I was able to return to a straight ahead ('up' in the top view in Hammer) orientation and proceed from there.

    In all cases the 'up then stop' effect appeared to occur at roughly the same point, which makes me think that it was more due to hitboxes than momentum determining whether I still had contact with at least some of the flat area of the map. Further, there was a distinct difference in terms of what ramps each class could climb, rather than a universal rate- I made a point of attempting ramps I knew were not climbable, such as sending the Soldier up a ramp the Scout could not ascend. The Scout could move up the 100/53 ramp, straight ahead, at a slow but definite pace. The Soldier would ascend a short ways and then slowly slide back down again.

    I can't explain to you why this is the way it is, as opposed to what you believe it should be- I just know that there were ramps that some classes were capable of reaching the top of whereas others could not. This appears to roughly map to the speed for each class, although either imperfectly or at such small gradation that I was unable to establish the differences. There was no difference in surface, there was no difference in approach- it simply happened the way I describe.

    And as you mention, yes, jumping is probably going to work better and these angles are also such that it would invoke the same issues as elevators in a TF2 map- sitting there moving slowly for an extended period can be bad. But again, I figure it may prove useful for people in unusual situations. Maybe areas where jumping isn't possible and you want to isolate it to only Scouts, or what have you.
     
  4. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Could you give me the map you tested this on? Because I went and checked everything I said myself since I never had actually done so in TF2 and couldn't say with certainly they hadn't altered something.
     
  5. Stormcaller3801

    Stormcaller3801 L5: Dapper Member

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    Certainly.

    The entire map is filled with a func_respawnroom so you can change classes at any time without delay; it is fullbright as I warned in the first post. The ramp furthest to the left is 100 tall, 50 wide, and 50 deep; it proceeds to the far right at 100 tall, 50 wide, and 80 deep. The spaces between ramps are player clip brushes. I varied the textures in order to aid in identifying which ramp I was on, but it shouldn't have altered the $material property from one to the next.