R e s p e c t

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Flame, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. Flame

    aa Flame

    Messages:
    369
    Positive Ratings:
    433
    Find out what it means to me...

    no really. Ok I've noticed a lot of people talking constantly about how people "ignore their maps" and whining that "nobody is posting feedback" and saying things like "woah, that guy got 5 pages of posts in 20 minutes wtf" or doing things like bumping their thread 3 times in a row.

    Almost everything online is built on respect. Given most people don't know many people on the internet IRL you need to base your attitude and support toward someone based off how you view them and how they conduct themselves in different situations / what they've done to show they care about everyone else and their opinions.

    Might be easy for me to say stuff like this given I don't map but I do notice a lot of what goes on around here and in the chat room.

    Obviously YM, Mangy, Ravidge, Acegikmo, and Icarus are going to get more posts in their threads right from the start because they are 'popular' and everybody knows them but like it isnt like they didnt work their asses off to get to that point. Even people like Booj who havent put out a map yet gets the respect he deserves by doing things like hosting gamedays, and even making RCON programs which I actually use on a regular basis now.

    The whole whining and spamming thing just lowers people's views of you. I've seen some pretty disrespectful bullshit occur between mappers in the 4-5 months I've been around and its pretty silly if you ask me. People fighting over whose map goes first on gameday, others extending their map times and leaving before the next tested map, and even people pm'ing me and other people saying YO GO POST IN MY THREAD.

    Crap needs to stop, people need to step it up and assert themselves if they want their map tested, and quit relying on others to do stuff for them.

    If you want your map tested, pm someone to upload the map or upload it yourself and spam your friends, the chat, your mom, etc to come join or ask nine or someone to make an event, theres always people around. If you want feedback add some people to friends and discuss with them, and if you want feedback in your thread try posting in other people's first who don't seem like total douches.

    Obv again I still don't map but posting feedback to me is fun, so is looking for problems and knowing I made an impact just by screenshotting an error and posting what I think could be done, but you have to understand me and nobody else is going to post feedback for a mapper they think doesnt deserve it.

    TLDR... suck it up, help other people before you ask for help yourself, and get a good rep before saying everyone is ignoring you.

    /endrant
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 15
  2. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

    Messages:
    944
    Positive Ratings:
    564
    Ugh, people whine and moan, yeah. I doubt lack of feedback has much to do with authors, and more to do with the people playing.

    Example: All the time during a testing of Arid, people kept on telling me to change the base area, so I thought a bit, and just, couldn't think, so I asked for ideas and got a couple. Sometimes asking is necessary.

    People need to be willing to give feedback, and authors must be willing to take it and move forward.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  3. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

    Messages:
    1,705
    Positive Ratings:
    1,466
    I believe that a lot of people try to gain feedback the wrong way. Sometimes authors will just throw out a generic question asking how the map is and they'll receive a simple answer which doesn't give anything of any use back to them. You have to be critical of your own maps. If you think there is something wrong about X or something frustrating about Y then raise the issue either during the test or in the thread and then you'll receive feedback that covers your concerns, helping you to push forward with the map.
     
  4. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    573
    Positive Ratings:
    205
    I have also noticed that some authors ask for feedback, then get it, then get annoyed if a part of their map or model needs to be changed. In my opinion, people should listen to the guys on this forum: - they know what they're talking about!
     
  5. FaTony

    FaTony Banned

    Messages:
    902
    Positive Ratings:
    160
    There's also popularity for those who can't understand respect.
     
  6. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,561
    I think the main problem is to do with how maps get started. To be honest, not much can really be said about early alpha's beyond "there is difficult gameplay here", "there is easy gameplay here" or mentioning whether the map is too big or small. Something that doesn't really warrant many more than a couple thread replies. Additionally people have the wrong perspective on the act of feedback, people should value the quality of replies, not the amount.

    When you notice someone like Icarus post a new map up, you'll also notice the first 4-5 pages don't really say anything beyond "omg, YOU are doing a new map!", because they have released one that was popular before, so there is a certain level of expectation. The quality of the genuine feedback is approximtely the same for all comparable versions of releases.

    People are just impatient. They post up a thread and want loads of comments and feedback right away, but it doesn't work like that. Threads with 8+ pages of comments are late beta's that have seen god knows how many play tests over god knows how many months; and it's unlikely a new map is going to get large amounts of replies unless it's contraversial (see orange, idle/achievement maps for example).

    It seems oddly immature to me that people want pages of comments regardless of their quality, rather than taking quality feedback from one or two individuals. In a practical sense there is just no way an early alpha map (that doesn't hit the community with a certain level of controvesy) is going to get a ton of feedback off the bat, because most people will be saying the same thing and see that someone else beat them to the punch.

    Obviously it's nice if your new map thread gets lots of general support like looks good, but people should value quality posts from people like littleedge over others. A post like that from little is worth a whole page of "looks good" comments.

    edit: people generally bump their threads because a new release is out and there is no other way of informing the forum community of that update. I would not consider this shameless. I can also relate to people who's maps have been to gamedays and not had a single feedback post in 3 days, so they end up bumping their thread because of the recent test. I've found bumping my thread for gamedays is useful, as a lot of people cannot be arsed to sift through several pages of old maps to find yours and post their feedback. If it's not on the first 2-3 pages they will usually give up until it re-surfaces. That also, i would not consider shameless bumping. But yes, otherwise, bumping 3 times in a row in a short space of time and moaning about lack of attention is in the extreme end of immaturity for this community.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  7. Tapp

    Tapp L10: Glamorous Member

    Messages:
    776
    Positive Ratings:
    211
  8. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

    Messages:
    1,992
    Positive Ratings:
    1,233
    TL;DR whining about whining is not cool.

    Just kidding, I read the entire thing. I have to say, though. You can't really make statements like this since you don't map.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  9. Boonsaw

    Boonsaw L1: Registered

    Messages:
    46
    Positive Ratings:
    18
    That is some very well hidden sarcasm :O
     
  10. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

    Messages:
    948
    Positive Ratings:
    551
    This isn't an issue about mapping, this is an issue about people's jealousy. Anyone can really comment on that if you see the scene.
     
  11. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

    Messages:
    1,992
    Positive Ratings:
    1,233
    But people get jealous because they put in time and effort, which pales in comparison to names. Until you experience that, you will not fully understand.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. Flame

    aa Flame

    Messages:
    369
    Positive Ratings:
    433
    I understand that if I were to make a map right now, I'm positive that I could rely on a lot of people to give me help, feedback, and suggestions just based off how much I have helped them in the past.

    Just sayin
     
  13. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

    Messages:
    944
    Positive Ratings:
    564
    Yeah, but I doubt it's a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" type thing. A lot of variables have to be considered, what stage the map is at, how much testing has been done, how many problems there are... and so on.

    I don't post in people's threads, or map showcases because they have to me. I post because I either:
    a) See something needing fixed in the map
    b) Have ideas about how to improve the map
    c) Respond to people asking about how their map was, if nobody else has posted

    The above are my main reasons, I wouldn't post on their thread just because they posted on my thread.