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Project 19 - Indie Game Project

Discussion in 'Games Talk' started by Uncuepa, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. Uncuepa

    aa Uncuepa

    Positive Ratings:
    Hi guys, Uncuepa here. I've taken a little break from mapping, but I've got a new project. Let me start by saying this is ambitious. This is going to be a long process and I am simply begging for help.

    I am a long time gamer. The games that are notorious for consuming time are MMOs. MMOs have been around since the early days of the internet. Many of you may have played WoW, which is the most famous and reigning king of MMOs, but it's not perfect. Many have tried, but due to time constraints or trying to be too similar, they fail.

    Rift was one MMO that many considered to be THE WoW killer. Rift started strong, it had the familiar mechanics, and interesting world, fun mini-events 24/7, but it lacked things. End game content was almost non-existent. The lore was boring. The menus were counter-intuitive. Eventually its subscribers dwindled and it went free to play. And doing so, damaged the community.

    Here's the whole point of the post. MMOs have a huge market. All MMOs try to do WoW better, but fail. But Project 19 has the answer.

    Project 19 is the end all of MMORPG’s. The game features two empires expanding their land on a new continent. The game is driven by the players, both economy wise and content wise, in that world expansion is dependent on the players. If players are in a PvE zone, and do exceptionally well, next update the zone may become more controlled by their faction, and a new zone allowing for a fresh experience to open up. If two zones that border each other are owned by different factions, then those zones may become PvP, and similar to PvE zones, when a faction does exceptionally well, they claim control of it. But the game is not dependant entirely on combat, as plenty of peaceful leveling tasks to do with gathering and crafting open new experiences to more casual or pacifist players. The end result should be an MMO with freedom, epicness, and a fresh experience.

    I want to create this game as a fan of MMOs. After playing many MMORPG’s, I feel like I have a good idea of what makes a good MMO. I want to create the best player experience, and doing so set a higher standard for other games in the genre.

    The game takes place on Novolerra as part of new imperial expansion. The land stretches from the tropics in the south to the frozen north, which means it is a large piece of land to control. This could be a great asset to the empires, and allows for new and exotic materials for the already established civilisations.

    The player controls their adventurer. The details as to the classes and species are to be decided. The combat and mechanics of the players will mimic those of MMO’s before, in which you have a variety of spells and abilities to cast, along with a variety of crafting and gathering mechanics.

    Project 19 is everything an MMORPG should be. Want to control your own farm? You can. Want to explore unexplored mountains? You can. Want to hunt down the biggest beast in the forest? You can. It takes the novelties and premises of other MMOs and expands them, because in Project 19 a forest isn’t some 5km2 stretch of recoloured trees, it’s a 30km2 of foliage with wolf dens, poisenous mushrooms and reflecting pools to be conquered. This game is all about choice. You can be a soldier or a pacifist. You can be a discoverer or a crafter. It all comes down to what you want to do.

    Years of gaming and forum crawling has made one thing certain to me, but you don’t dig that deep to see what players want. Choice. MMO players for years have wanted the perfect social game, where you can own your own house, affect the content produced and still have an easy to understand video game. Many games have promised change in the system, but with small, grindy, fetch quest zones and cookie cutter updates, they soon fall apart. Project 19 does not limit itself to map size, future content or player choice. The idea that one could level a character by cutting down various trees and mining solid stone to help build an NPC fortress is one that should excite any veteran WoW player. Most MMO’s have two ways to level. Either zone to zone questing, or repetitive dungeoneering. What if you had multiple routes of leveling and exciting new dungeons along with various other missions such as helping refugees establish a camp on a shore, and building a ship to sail to an unexplored island. These are all long requested MMO features that are going to be implemented into Project 19.

    This may seem like I am talking out of my arse. Where is the evidence of production? That is the point of this post. The Project 19 team is currently comprised of a couple artists, a world/level designer, a few budding programmers and I. Us programmers are only just starting to learn C++. Other than a programming friend from Sydney that is helping us learn, we have no real programmers yet. And at the same time, we have no digital artists yet, our art team is focused on concept art. We need people.


    I am asking that if anyone has coding experience or 3D art abilities, please add me on Steam. Here is our current 6 month plan.

    • Concept Art Completed
    • Working Offline Prototype
    • Early World Design Complete
    • Lore Established
    • Character System Implemented
    • Fundraising Scheme Planned

    At this time, our funding is all out of pocket. All funding comes from the team. We are looking at two engines that offer team licences, and both use C++. Again, if you have anything to offer to this project, add me on Steam.

    Thank you, and good day.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  2. fauks

    fauks L2: Junior Member

    Positive Ratings:
    do the size variations help convey the message?
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Uncuepa

    aa Uncuepa

    Positive Ratings:
    Toned it back.
  4. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun too

    Positive Ratings:
    Not to put you down, but...

    There's plenty of promise here, just realize that the MMO market is usually reserved for large AAA crews. I don't really want to be a naysayer :(

    But if you could find a way to make it all work without being someone who merely churns out ideas (and instead plays an active role in development), I can see a bright future in wherever this project goes.
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Positive Ratings:
    I am a huge fan of MMO's, like, a huge majority of my gaming time is sunk into MMO's. Runescape, Guild Wars 1 + expansions, Guild Wars 2, Dragonica, Neverwinter, Aion, Lineage II... Easily 10,000 hours playing MMO's, if not more. So, to see this, I'm really excited that there's another MMO coming out on the market for me to try.

    That being said, and this might/will sound a little harsh. Who the heck are you? As in, do you have experience in designing and creating MMO systems? Have you been a part of an MMO project before? Do you have any game design experience at all outside of TF2? Do your teammates? If the answer is no to any of these, I wish you the best of luck, but holy crap you're jumping into the deepest and dark end of the game development pool as a first project. ESPECIALLY if you're going to learn C++.

    Which engines are you looking at? Are you sure both of them work for MMO's? Are they 2D or 3D? Kubeking is right, MMO's are DOMINATED by AAA companies and their publishers. Why is that? It takes a metric shit ton of money to develop and then to maintain.

    You say "Project 19 is the end all of MMORPG’s" ... Okay, wonderful. What sets you apart from Every. Other. MMO's. Marketing. Plan. The systems you described have been used in multiple other MMO's: Farming? Runescape and ArcheAge. Territorial control that changes zones? Guild Wars 1 Factions, bit of Nightfall. Explore unexplore mountains? What? They've been done, sometimes all at once. Why should I believe you in saying that this will be better than them?

    The scope of this project is MASSIVE. How long do you think development on this will take?

    I'm not sold, and I almost consider this a joke. I'm being harsh, I will 100% admit, but this is almost funny to me. I'm sorry, I wish you the best of luck, but until I can see some experience beyond "we're MMO fans, thus me we can a good mmo!" I honestly cannot see this project getting anywhere in a month.
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  6. killohurtz

    aa killohurtz Distinction in Applied Carving

    Positive Ratings:
    Yeah you're definitely biting off more than you can chew here. It's one thing to have an "innovative" idea, and something else entirely to have the experience and funding necessary to make it a reality. Your current team isn't nearly enough for a MMO, but it's still a good start, so why don't you guys kick off with a simpler project like a single-player game or mod instead?
  7. Trotim

    aa Trotim

    Positive Ratings:
    Okay stop

    Your team with no experience (and no game designer position) can't make anything close to an MMO killer

    The only chance you have is to go Wanderlust Adventures or Dwarf Fortress style and bet on basic 2d art/ascii to convey your world. But starting a 5 year project I still wouldn't recommend
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Positive Ratings:
    Definitely. I've been developing games for at least 7 years now, and have maybe 20+ (small) games under my belt. The longest project I've completed spanned about 6-8 months, and even that was a bit shaky towards the end. It's great that you want to make a big game, but you should definitely get more experience before you even think about trying something of this scale.
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  9. Doktor Richter

    Doktor Richter L3: Member

    Positive Ratings:
    I suppose I'm not the most qualified person to say this, since I don't have a huge lot of game design experience, but I think you're falling into a dangerous pitfall: you're assuming you have the skills to design an MMORPG, simply because you've played a lot of MMORPG's. And that's a very dangerous leap to make. You also may be assuming that all it takes to make a perfect game is time and artistic freedom, which is simply not true at all.

    Look at all the players coming to TF2Maps.net with 1000+ hours of experience playing TF2 and starting off with a flat, boring map for their first mapping project, despite possibly dedicating quite a bit of time to it. No offense to any of them, since it's near impossible to get mapping right on your first try, but it's obvious that experience playing TF2 does not translate well into experience designing a map for TF2. And I think that philosophy can be extended to games in general.

    Rather, I think playing a lot of MMORPG's has made you realize what you want in an MMORPG. On the one hand, you should absolutely be designing the game you want to see, because that's what's going to fuel your inspiration.

    On the other hand, this is an MMORPG. And an MMORPG isn't just a regular RPG with a large game world, more quests, some world interactivity, etc. It's an enormous undertaking, by and far orders of magnitude more complex than designing any other sort of game. There are dozens, maybe hundreds of design considerations that go into an MMORPG that are nearly or completely invisible to the end player, like lag compensation, server infrastructure, DoS and DDoS mitigation (remember Diablo 3's server problems on launch? That was released by one of the biggest publishers on Earth, and it wasn't even an MMORPG), the level of player influence in the world (how do you make each of 100,000 players feel significant without making them able to sour everyone else's experience by radically changing the game), instance hosting and processing...the list goes on. Just playing MMORPG's cannot give you an adequate insight on how to deal with these problems as a developer.

    Like everyone else, I'm not trying to be harsh or condescending. I'm pleading, for your own good, that you don't start this project. You're going to waste potentially enormous amounts of time and money before you discover that you simply don't have the power to deliver what you're promising. You want Project 19 to be "the end all of MMORPG’s", but think of all the "WoW killers" in recent time, who they've come from and on what budgets, and what fate they ultimately met. It's simply unrealistic to think that the game to dethrone WoW will come from a dozen folks who are only now learning C++.

    Chasing your dreams is fine, but assuming your dreams are right at your doorstep is another thing entirely. If you want to get started with serious game design, you've chosen the absolute worst genre to start with. I think it's fantastic that you're assembling a sort of grassroots indie team to see the game you want to get made, but I really think you should start with something smaller.
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  10. Moonfixer

    Moonfixer L5: Dapper Member

    Positive Ratings:
    I have only been a part of a team that made smaller games such as top down 2.5d shooters etc and even games like that take lots of time to do well and polish. That being said I understand you have your heart in the right place but you really should start a lot smaller than what you have described. There is a reason a lot of indie games out there are rather simplistic compared to AAA games. This is one of them.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  11. HQDefault

    aa HQDefault ...what

    Positive Ratings:
    Miracles have happened.

    I have doubts. Lot's of them, in fact.

    But if you think you want to do this, then I'll give you and your colleagues the benefit of the doubt. FOR NOW.

    I may even contribute a bit of nonprofessional help.

    I do think your project is a little ambitious.
    In fact, I haven't played many MMOs, but I feel like you should dim down your concept just a little bit. PLAN with some simplicity in mind, that way you won't just cut off what you can't do.

    But basically what you described to me was the adventure of WoW, combined with the creativity of Cube World, and the world impact of Planetside

    All in all, if you put all those concepts together, even if you do put in more simplified things, you can get away with a lot of game design choices. And the beauty of that is, it's different enough from the game that you won't even HAVE to compete much. It would be something different!

    And one more thing: If you do show some progress, then I say you have all of TF2maps to back you up. (With gameplay testing at the very least) But I would make the development time WAAAAY longer that 6 months. Try 3-4 years. Then you might get enough feedback for it to be worth playing.

    I want to share a story. First off: I'm calling it. Despite my previous enthusiasm, I'm willing to bet that you're quitting within the next 3 days.

    Why do I think this? Because I've done it every time I tried to make a game. I once wanted to make a simple 2D top-down sandbox game with only, like, 40 items. Tops. And then I looked at the coding. All I remember before I totally backed out of the project, was the website taking me 20 pages to get to a button that makes a pop-up box. I don't have the patience to have my own free will go to a web page and read it for 3 weeks to figure out how to make my guy move right. Even recently, I had an idea in my mind for a good RTS, it was an idea for a more hands-on TF2-inspired RTS, but when I took a look at unity, I had a little more faith, but I wasn't sure if I was ready, and thus, I backed out again.

    What I'm saying, is you should've told us that this was a thing, like, 1 month in, and a ton more people would've been on board.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015