Possibly new hammer editor?

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Crash, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    http://www.valvetime.net/threads/dota-2-workshop-tools-introduce-hammer-2014.245390/

    Who knows if we'll ever get it, though.
     
  2. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    For TF2? Probably not, this thing has 0 support for brushes.
     
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  3. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Doubtful for TF2.

    Future games? Definitely.
     
  4. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    I honestly won't be surprised if that's the Source 2 hammer and they're trying to make it backwards compatible with the Source Engine.
     
  5. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    You can do things like this with it!

    http://www.gfycat.com/NiftyInfatuatedBull

    It's quite slick. Definitely seems like it's made for dota in mind with it's tile editor, after some exploration into how the tiles are actually made, it'd definitely be possible to use it for other games, though probably not as easily. It could be quite easily used for placing details, or making basic displacements. Doing things like this takes like 2 minutes.

    Brushes are gone and replaced by meshes. This means they're a lot nicer and more powerful to use ( this is a single "brush" made from a box and an arch). The meshes are textured in a similar way, (in fact, better, a lot more control over the UV's), but I can't tell if they compile into brushes or meshes at runtime. If meshes, it wouldn't be as suited to games like tf2, as dota doesn't require the VIS system for optimisation so it gets away with it while tf2 can't.

    The other things like the model and particle editor built in are very slick. The tools seem a bit unstable, freezing and crashing like normal I guess. The fully lit viewport is nice of course. They've also transitioned into full traditional gizmo manipulation of objects, basically making the necessity to have 2D views up permanently null, which is great, more room for the beautiful 3D view.

    All in all, it feels like a cross between an actual proper editor, like UE4, Cryengine, etc, crossed with everything awesome from an RTS editor, cross with full scripting on top of source's I/O. Very powerful, fully expecting WC3 to be remade at some point...but also feels a lot more suited to dota than anything else.

    I'm expecting this has probably been in development since dota started (obviously) and that it'll probably be the last SDK they release before moving onto source 2. I don't see them porting this back to other source games, it'd be easier at this point to make this editor work for a new engine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  6. shadowslasher11

    aa shadowslasher11

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    In a way, I'm kinda saddened by this new way. I don't know if it will be easier, or harder on me. Because I've spent years working in the Source Engine Hammer Editor on the 4 plains of angles, and it's grown accustomed to my eyes. I know where everything is, I know how most of it works, and it's basically was where mapping blood started with me. It's going to sadden me a bit to see it go, it's been such a great editor to work with (When it wasn't bugging the fuck out.) and it always made me feel like I was actually doing something compared to other editors I've delt with.

    In a way, I hope they keep the old style of Source Map making in a possible future version of Source 2 Hammer. Because my only speculation with this, is that I feel like I won't be able to control it as much.

    So ya...if what Aly posted is what will become of the Source 2 Hammer Editor. Well, I might as well get studying on it.
     
  7. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Here's a taste of the vertex painting tools in the sdk.

    [​IMG]

    also prop_static arbitary axis scaling:

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  8. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    Still cute to me how excited people are about the terrain tools since those are basically the same as WC3 had 12 years ago. But that's more me realizing in retrospect how good its tools were I guess

    After the unintuitive mess Starcraft 2's editor unfortunately became this is more approachable. Should be enough to get the old WC3 modding community together again

    I'll remain skeptical though until I see custom terrain assets and actual gameplay scripting
     
  9. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Technically TF2 doesn't really need brushes, vbsp pulls them apart and deletes the unneeded faces already. Brushes are just the interface mechanism they decided made the most sense in the era the engine was developed.

    There does need to a mechanism for defining trigger volumes but you don't strictly need brushes to do that either. It just depends on how Valve decided to deal with entities this time around.

    I suppose the biggest downside is there won't be any way to port maps to the new software, we'd all be starting from scratch all over again. But that might actually be a good thing, we've been beating on Source for 10 years now.
     
  10. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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  11. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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  12. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Man that's pretty rad, and a long time coming.


    The whole feature list is pretty exciting, when is TF3 launching so we can use the tool? :O
     
  13. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    Still wish they'd call the new engine "ReSource". Because that's what they intend for it to be, a resource for modders and game developers.
     
  14. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    augh no. "source" is bad enough when trying to search for things since EVERY ENGINE EVER uses the word "source" in documentation. "resource" would be just as bad. "source 2" MIGHT get better... but I doubt it. Just give it a damn name already valve.
     
  15. Kyv'thil'hurum

    Kyv'thil'hurum L1: Registered

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    So... anyone want to bet on the likelihood of TF2 getting updated to Source 2, or are we going to get left in the dust?
     
  16. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    A TF3 would probably use it, but TF2 is a shipped product. It makes no sense to port it to a new engine that uses all new file formats.. the effort is equivalent to making a new game that you can't sell to anyone.
     
  17. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    Are the file formats "all new", though? So far all I've seen is that an in-development map is a "vmap" instead of "vmf".
     
  18. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Yes, the snips I've seen so far show some pretty significant changes. Here's an example of a vmat file, which is the replacement for vmt:

    http://pastebin.com/681iYC4w

    There's definitely some similarities taken from vmt files, but all the variable names and parameters have changed.
     
  19. Micnax

    aa Micnax I maek map

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    Oh lord, it looks soooooooo gooooooooood.

    A shame it will most likely never work with TF2 unless it was ported over to Source 2.
     
  20. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    It is entirely possible TF2 will migrate to S2 at some point. We know Dota 2 runs on S1 and S2, and there was that L4D S2 business a while back. I only see it happening though if S2 gives them any appreciable improvement over longevity of TF2. If they think that current TF2 stuff is fine for them to continue towards 2020 and beyond, they won't bother migrating.