CP Pollution

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Di Gorgonzola, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Di Gorgonzola

    Di Gorgonzola L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    179
    Positive Ratings:
    284
    Pollution_a10a

    Cp_pollution is the revisited, resurrected and remastered version of the ever so classic 72-hour map cp_mlj_72_2, which with it's unique layout and interesting gameplay features (toxic water), provoked many fine comments such as "clip this goddamn window frame, it fills me with anal cancer" and "map is literally hitler".

    Palm tree models: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=5376
    Anemometer: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=2854
    TESTING signs: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=14175
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  2. Haromnyuszi

    Haromnyuszi L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    57
    Positive Ratings:
    11
    Love how it looks
     
  3. Egan

    aa Egan

    Messages:
    1,302
    Positive Ratings:
    1,478
    Glad you're working on this again, I remember it being fun. Maybe instead of damaging shallow water you could infest it all with sharks - those are pretty pacific-y.

    Edit: Oh I didn't even notice it was crude oil. Makes sense I guess but it still just looked like darker water to me. Maybe ingame it would be different, or use one of those _level_sounds.txt to replace all the water sounds with like oily tar sounds - would give a good impression.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  4. sevin

    aa sevin

    Messages:
    954
    Positive Ratings:
    652
    Sharks swim in crude oil? Badass.
     
  5. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,213
    So they die if they touch the water because it's polluted with oil? What are they, the offspring of Captain Planet or something?

    Also I do not remember this map. I must have missed some of the tests.
     
  6. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

    Messages:
    1,471
    Positive Ratings:
    1,363
    i have a good feeling about this
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. Di Gorgonzola

    Di Gorgonzola L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    179
    Positive Ratings:
    284
    I was considering changing it back from crude oil to some sort of toxic waste just for the sake of readability (green water looks more threatening than some sort of dull, dark, muted water). I thought a vast continuous horizon of pure acid green probably would be too harsh for the eyes.

    Maybe that wouldn't be that much of a problem, if I changed the colour scheme to something similar of Caustic Caverns from Borderlands, and used the green toxic colour to my own advantage.
     
  8. TyeZenneth

    TyeZenneth L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    333
    Positive Ratings:
    275
    The first thing I thought of when I heard the idea was the level Ricco Harbor in Super Mario Sunshine, wherein the oil is literally pitch black and floats on the surface of the water.
     
  9. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,213
    In either case, it wouldn't have to go all the way out to the horizon, and probably shouldn't since that would be an insane amount of toxic goo. Some sort of visible transition to clean(er) water sounds like it would be a good idea. I have an idea how this might work, but it's kind of complicated. Basically it involves using displacement alphas and a bunch of custom materials to fake alpha-blendable water just outside the field of play. Since it's outside the field of play, people won't be able to tell that it's not real water. I can PM you the details of how I think it would work if you want.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

    Messages:
    660
    Positive Ratings:
    308
    I happened to play this map on it's 72h version, I'm happy you removed the slime (and it's red X's). The whole map looks really good, as far as I can see from the screenshots.
    I think the idea of toxic waste themed map is great, because It's much clearer. The picture you linked also looks really cool. The problem with oil is that people here, looking at the pictures, thought it was water even though you clearly mentioned it's oil. Think about what will players think: while shooting and getting shot, fighting over the point, the player suddenly gets hit with flames. He runs away, looking for health, and then sees a huge lake of dark water surounding the entire level. Happily, he jumps in, only to turn the whole level into a giant fps-killing fire, getting himself killed in the proccess.
    Besides, toxic water is more cool than oil.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Di Gorgonzola

    Di Gorgonzola L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    179
    Positive Ratings:
    284
    Map updated to a4. And just in time for the update too!
    OP fully updated with both changelog AND screenshots.
     
  12. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

    Messages:
    1,992
    Positive Ratings:
    1,233
    good god that green slime texture is horrifying
     
  13. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

    Messages:
    660
    Positive Ratings:
    308
    It looks...uh... well... much worse than I thought while writing that post about two week ago.
    On second thought, I don't think slime toxic liquid should be exposed to sunlight. It looks terrible and most likely emits toxic fumes as well.
    Is there another slime texture? Maybe try a different setting?
     
  14. TyeZenneth

    TyeZenneth L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    333
    Positive Ratings:
    275
    I think changing the color of the toxic sludge to a dark brown or black would make it look like oil again, and also look less terrible in bright environmental lighting.
     
  15. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

    Messages:
    660
    Positive Ratings:
    308
  16. TheBestUsername

    TheBestUsername L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    151
    Positive Ratings:
    39
    Um, I playtested this map earlier today, and everybody was talking about how much they hated the slime. We all thought it was an eyesore, and we disliked the fact that it damaged players. Multiple people said they thought you should replace the slime/oil with normal water. I recall one person saying that they thought none of the routes filled with slime were worth going into because of the heavy damage you take if you do so.

    If this were UT3, the slime would be okay, but in TF2, it doesn't seem thematically consistent, it conflicts with the pre-existing color palette of the game, and it just isn't fun. I very highly recommend you either replace the slime with normal water or don't have it at all.

    Also, Engineers are actually able to build stuff in the slime. There was an engie on my team who built a teleporter that took us straight into the harmful slime, just to troll us. That was really annoying, so I think you might want to make that into a no-build zone.

    I hate to sound so negative. I feel like I'm coming down really hard on your map because of just one single problem, but the truth is that your map was super fun and excellently balanced, and it looked great (again, except for the slime). Please don't be discouraged by what I've said, because I loved your map, and I really want to see it reach completion.

    By the way, do you plan on making this 3-stage? What you've made so far feels like its just the first stage of a Dustbowl-style map.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. TyeZenneth

    TyeZenneth L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    333
    Positive Ratings:
    275
    Personally, I don't think you should get rid of the slime completely.
    Just tone it down a little; make it only block off really useful routes or out of bound areas where players shouldn't be heading anyway. And please get that color changed.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  18. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Messages:
    1,769
    Positive Ratings:
    1,517
    i don't understand the point of the slime at all. you give a player the choice of guaranteed hurt vs maybe an enemy will kill them and they'll take the chance of an enemy every time. I'd rather it just be deathpit tbh.

    I really like the first point also. The slime there works better than at 2nd imo.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  19. TyeZenneth

    TyeZenneth L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    333
    Positive Ratings:
    275
    That depends on the classes interacting, in my opinion. A Scout or Demoknight in particular would rather take the hazard than deal with a Soldier or Heavy when they're at low health, whereas to a Heavy the hazard is already technically already a deathpit.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. Di Gorgonzola

    Di Gorgonzola L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    179
    Positive Ratings:
    284
    I'm way too stubborn to give up the toxic sludge gimmick. While it's maybe the one thing that completly destroys the map, i still feel it's whats makes it special. I do agree though, that right now it's not working the way I intended.

    For the next version I'm going to halve the damage from the sludge, instead of adding medium healthpacks at the end of the sludge routes (to prevent people from swarming the healthpack and thereby making the route useless as an flanking route). Also, the sludge is getting a nobuild, or for teleporters at least. I don't want to limit players too much. I didn't nobuild it completly originally, since I was interested to see if engineers would hide their teleporters under the sludge behind enemy lines, which wasn't the case at all.

    I was going for some risk/reward thing with the slime. You have to really have an overview over whats happening, and where the enemy is. If you don't, they can force you to stay in the waste, where you're already weakened, which means every class is a threat. However, if you make it hrough, you are being rewarded with a strong position/skipping a chokepoint and a quick healthpack to make of for your health loss. Since the slime hurts over time, you are being forced to keep moving, and make fast decisions. It also makes it more risky to ninjacap, since you're pretty weak when you finally reach the capture point.
    The sludge also allows me to have a wide open area, without having it being dominated by snipers. Also it allows soldiers to "super rocketjump" and land from high areas without taking any fall damage.
    Also, in retrospect, this is maybe the dumbest crap i've ever written, since the height disadvantage and no cover already is one heck of a risk. Whatever.

    Don't worry about sounding negative. Harsh feedback strengthens the character. And I prefer it over sugar coating any day.

    It actually has a uncompleted first stage hidden away in a vis-group, an I have been planning on adding additional stages later, when I have resolved this entire slime issue. I used to have some sketches from the 72 hour contest, but I believe I have trashed them. They were even worse.