PL pl_octagon

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by RubbishyUser, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    octagon

    pl_octagon is a single stage payload map set it a foundry-esque coal plant. It's also my first map! Started for the summer 72 hour contest, Octagon was submitted 120 hours late for the deadline.

    This map is unique in that it features 3 points instead of the standard 4 seen in most payloads. The reason behind this is to make round times shorter, giving teams more chances to play on offense and defense, as well as to spend more time at the high-interest points of any map: the beginning and the end. Also, it should be less work for me.

    Specific things I'm looking for feedback on:
    • Health and ammo.
    • This map features a complex door system, and a number of dynamic signs to compensate. Do you know where to go?
    • Spawn times and round times.
    • FPS. Whist I'm certainly not into optimization just yet, I want to know what regions are the most fps intensive so I can start thinking about how to deal with them.

    Possible radical changes:
    • Leaving the first door in the turbine room open so that BLU have more flanking options after point A is capped. The downside is that that reduces the importance of the door system in the first place, and flat out obsoletes some paths.
    • Additional flank area going into C, to the left of the current door.
    • Remaking the map again 10-20% smaller. PLS NO
    • Making the spiral less easy for pyros to airblast people to their death. Upside is that the current scenario is stupid good for pyros. Downside is that it'd be less fun for pyros.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  2. radarhead

    aa radarhead Level 20 "Mapper"

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    "Elmo, I can't play pl_octagon right now, I'm trying to find an octagon. How will I find an octagon, Elmo, HOW Elmo HOW?"
     
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  3. Waffe

    Waffe L4: Comfortable Member

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    The map is oddly mazelike between A and C, but it's not that complex so it's easy to learn. I didn't have any trouble of finding the A point as red (at first glance), but I had no idea where the second point was. I also noticed that the skybox is a bit low around A.

    The second point puzzles me. How are you supposed to defend it? Maybe you could move the point downstairs, but still, the platform gives BLU a height advantage and control over the mid building.

    I experimented with the door at the A point and got it to open by the power of bread!

    I also found that you are able to build inside red spawn (right after the first door from spawn)
     
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  4. MystycCheez

    MystycCheez L1: Registered

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  5. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Comments are in bold.

     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  6. Fantasma

    aa Fantasma

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  7. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    No thanks for you, Fantasmos. It's no longer funny.



    >:-(



    Ahh, who am I kidding. Love you too. Imp test went brilliantly, so I'm gonna tweak the blinding errors and keep things mostly the same for the next test.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  8. Grizzly Berry

    aa Grizzly Berry

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    Alright, you asked for a little bit of feedback, which I'm more than happy to provide because you've done it for me in the past. Thank you for that.

    First off, you have a lot of height advantage for Red right outside of Blu's spawn. I thought it would be a problem, but it seems like Blu's respawn time was fast enough to offset it. Still, most of these roofs are only accessible to jump classes. Kind of reminds me of Gravelpit B, where if you get the height advantage, there is enough cover up top that you can stay up there until you run out of ammo. Maybe try to find a way to make it more vulnerable? Not sure. Might not be a problem, further testing should sort it out.
    [​IMG]

    This room is too dark. You could always add some windows on the roof or sides. Put glass there so it doesn't change the play area at all. I like windows in angled roofs. They're neat. Or you could do a Harvest/Coldfront style of roof. Add some light, as well as nerfing the height advantage.
    [​IMG]

    Both these doors lock down after the first cap, leaving only one route for the attacking team to take (unless you're a jump class). There needs to be another route. Either add a way to get up to the jump class area, or put a flank route in...Or leave the middle door open.
    [​IMG]

    I really like this room. The geometry is really unique. Could use a little more light. You've got those great windows there. Either angle your light_env to come through them or fake it with some light_spot entities.
    [​IMG]

    Only two routes coming out of here for the attacking team and they're side by side! Whose idea was this!?
    [​IMG]

    Maybe open this door up or make it a one way for the attacking team. Also, maybe clip this roof off? The defending team already has the huge building over the tracks, do they really need more options?
    [​IMG]

    Again, clip this roof off. There was a sentry up here that was incredibly hard to take down. Able to lock down both exits for the attacking team with a serious height advantage.
    [​IMG]

    This room felt a little cramped. I really like what you have going on here, but it needs more room to breathe. The whole map felt a little cramped, to be honest.
    [​IMG]

    That's all I really have for ya. Some general things to maybe take note of:
    - Make your doors taller. Ideally, someone should be able to hop on the cart and ride it to the end. I try to make all my doors 160hu tall.
    - Shutter doors. *shudder* They don't work very well in payload maps, especially when the cart goes through them. However, taking them away might cause some sightline problems. Just my opinion, but I think you should limit the number you have.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  9. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Finally rose from the dead and have remade the map for a4. changelog in OP.
     
  10. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    I haven't downloaded the map just yet, but just by looking at it, I can tell that it's already better than most payload maps I've seen, mine included. I commend you.
     
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  11. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Thanks for the positive feedback, pc frank! awesome!


    Also, note to self: clip railings because Crash's video told me to.
     
  12. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    So we played this yesterday and i feel like i should make big post why i think the map could use some massive redesigns.

    [​IMG]

    First major issue the map has is the first area. It is quite frankly super boring and red never fights over it, i think just looking at the screenshot right here gives a good idea why. Most of the starting area is flat and open, making it very friendly for soldiers bombing blue from the roof to the side and snipers. Even the exits from blue setup area are all on the same level of height and lead to more or less same open area front of the building.

    Tunnel middle of the area is kinda silly, nobody fights there as it is a deathtrap and only time anyone ever goes there is to push the cart once first clash between the teams is over.

    [​IMG]

    This low ground area is also kinda silly, much like the tunnel, going here only puts you in a terrible position where you most likely get killed. Hardly worth of small health pack.

    But the map has much bigger issues than boring and flat area.

    [​IMG]

    I feel like from this point onward the map becomes huge pain to play as attacker. Not only there is only one way to this building, it is overlooked by balcony with full ammo pack and the red's shortcut from spawn is few steps away. Only way to really gain hold of this area and push onwards is to throw bodies at the cart until first point is capped and the shortcut is gone. (Teleporters on the balcony also make it even more difficult and unfun)

    [​IMG]

    And this is the part i feel like perfectly sums up the massive problem the map has, there is only one real way to go at all times. You got choice between upstairs path where the cart goes through and lower path that puts you in awful position slightly below the cart path. There is no routes to flank the enemy and the routes attackers do have, all lead to same spot.

    Upper route is easy to hold as it is one long sightline and if red manages to get hold of the whole hallway, good luck even getting up there as you need to walk up the big open ramp at the first point to reach it. Lower route instead puts you right below where most of the defense is, surrounded by high ground and exposes you to long sightline from the big door where defenders are going to be coming, so they will see you coming mile away. Honestly, the lower route feels like a flank for the defenders to make attackers life even more hell than route for attackers to flank the defense.

    [​IMG]

    And from here, it feels like the all the issues combine.
    Again there is only way to go and a flat open area, this time overlooked by roof with easy access for defenders. Funnily enough, hard as this is to push through for attackers, this point is hell for engineers as there is literally nowhere to set anything up, everything is exposed to sightlines and there barley any metal around. Most of the time i saw engineers switch to some other class when defending this part. It doesn't help blue has no forward spawn and even with newly opened shortcut to 2nd point, it feels like you walk a long time only to die desperately pushing through the only way your team can go.

    What i find most interesting about this part of the map, is that if blue manages to push through and get hold of the area, it is defenders that suffer from all the issues attackers have suffered through the whole map. Their spawn doors both lead to more or less same area, overlooked by tall roof with cover and there is only one real way to approach the attackers as they push the cart to the end.

    Honestly in the end, whole map feels like it is dictated by it's octagon shaped areas and general size of the map. It feels like the instead of the map being build around the payload gamemode, it is payload stuffed inside already laid out map without much thought.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014