PL pl_eruption A23a

What I thought the Valve map for jungle Inferno would look like

  1. RevolutionTeam

    RevolutionTeam L4: Comfortable Member

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    I suggest you overhaul one point at a time.

    Now, I think you should overhaul B first, so that you can get more feedback.

    However, the only map I have in testing is TrainTrap, and that map is shit, so take my suggestion with an ocean's worth of salt.
     
  2. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    In this version:

    - Made some changes over to Point B

    -Moved the second blu forward spawn further back again.

    -changed the health and ammo pack placement more.

    Notes:
    I feel like everytime I update this map it plays worse or something. That was the case with the last demo. I didnt even finished watching it. All of it was stealrolls. I hope with the new changes We will have more completed and fun rounds that steamrolls. Let's hope.
    Oh and btw, I have said it so many times but here I am again. Sure the map has issues and problems. But please give me some advice on HOW to fix them. Saying I dont like last , Says almost nothing to me on how to fix it.

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  3. tyler

    aa tyler

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    You should test each version more than once. You should also watch every demo (no matter how much of a roll it is) from several angles to understand why players are going places, why they are frustrated, or why RED can't hold certain positions. It is not everyone else's job to tell you how to make a good map. It's yours.
     
  4. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    Yea , no doubt about that. I am just not getting any explainations behind each complain so I cant do much :/
    But I hear you loud and clear

    edit: oh and also If I test a version more than once people are asking why are we playtesting the same version twice so there is that
     
  5. tyler

    aa tyler

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    Tell them you need more tests to decide what to do. More playtests on a version means more players know what the current layout is and gives you more data to make decisions with. Many people do this.

    It's not the player's job to tell you what to do. You have to figure out why people say things and decide if it's worth addressing or not. Decide who to listen to and who to ignore.
     
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  6. Squidward... no wait

    Squidward... no wait L2: Junior Member

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    Don't listen to the people who are questioning why they are playtesting the same version. You do need more then one playtest to figure out what needs to be changed, kept, or removed from the map.
     
  7. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    in this version:

    - Removed the ramp at point B that allowed Red team to get up on the high ground which made it very difficult for blu to cap point B.

    - Added a health and ammo pack at point B.

    - Fixed 2 long sightlines

    - Moved the second Blu forward spawn forward back to it's original location to make it easier for Blu to attack Last.

    - other Minor changes such as clipping , texture changes etc.

    Notes:
    I dont have much to say , The map is playing fairly good in my opinion , people are having fun and that's my goal. To work well and people to enjoy the map.
    Now for those who don't like the last point.
    No matter what I do one thing is for certain. Some people wont like it no matter what obviously. But that's alright. I mean I dont enjoy as much upward's last point, neither do I like swiftwater's last cause it's way too hard to push and the whole time you are trying to destroy the sentry nest covering the cart.
    I tried making something unique with last , There is No a must build Sentry spot there. But there are like 3 good sentry spots but all of them have a counter. There are ways to flank the defending team if you are Blu, like going upstairs to the balcony or using the vent.
    What I like about the last point of Eruption a lot is this:
    If you take your eyes away from the cart you lost. You need to keep watch and do you best not to allow Blu to push.
    I also tried making last point like a koth map.
    Whoever can attack better or defend better wins, that's a reason why the spawns are so close by.
    + I can't change the red Spawn that much since it's touching the cave walls so I dont have to freedom to do whatever.

    Anywayz, I hope I cleared some questions that people may had and I excited to see where this map will go.

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  8. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    In this version:

    -The red spawn at last point got a rework. (hopefully now spawncamp would be less of a problem. If I see that last is still not playing that well I will try a few other things that I got in mind)

    - Changed a few health and ammo packs a little.

    Notes:
    Sorry for the long wait. I was really busy those 2 weeks but I aim to return to my projects as soon as possible.
    About last , I really liked it before. I was hard to defend sure, but i think that's something you dont see that much. I mean most payload maps have a last in which it's filled with sentries and you are scared to push. I am personally not that happy with the changes I made. A few things are better for sure like the new door exit on the right that allows Red to go to that room that has the air vent underneath. the thing is that I dont have much space to rework last and I like last a lot. The main problems I see are those: Spawncamp and being too hard to defend.
    If that continues to be a problem I will revert the changes and rework a few other parts that I feel are causing the problem.
    Such as, this ramp that allows blue to go to red's highground and just camp the door. I could remove that and replace it with a room that has stairs and leads up to the highground, similar to barnblits.
    Anyways those are my ideas let's see where it leads.

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  9. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    in this version:

    - Closed off 1 of the 2 routes that allowed blu to get to the waterfall flank
    so in theory should allow Red to defend B a little easier.

    - Lowered the highground for Blu at point B at least 64-128hu.

    -Reverted the old red spawn at last.

    -Moved the resupply locker further back at red spawn.

    - tweaked the health and ammo packs a little.

    Notes:
    Hey there, so here's another update for eruption. To be honest the height differences never really crossed my mind as far the last point is concerned. I gave both teams a balcony but never really thought that it would be mostly in blue's favour but I hope the recent change helps the situation.
    Here's my plan for eruption as we go on.
    I want to improve Last as much as possible.
    I feel like point A plays pretty good , I dont have any plans really.
    About B, I think i should rework half of the point and change the spawn area as well.
    Last but not least I am thinking to do the same for point C. To make it more fun cause as of now not even I enjoy really playing on this point.

    That's It. If you got any feedback please let me know.

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  10. RevolutionTeam

    RevolutionTeam L4: Comfortable Member

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    My suggestion: try something like Upward for the B spawn. A sort of wooden structure inside the mine... or something.

    Also, Overhaul B first - that will give you feedback faster. Congrats on A21!
     
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  11. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    In this version:

    *Point C got a rework. Now there are more sentry spots around, more ways to counter them, more cover etc. I tried to come up with a more interesting layout this time around and fix the longstanding problems point C had.

    * closed a route at point A for a test. ( I want to see if it will play better or not, just an idea)

    * For point B, I closed 1 or the 2 ways to get to the waterfall area as blu
    * twicked the ammo and health pack placements a bit too.

    * For the last point, Now blu and red share the same height (almost).
    In theory the team who wins at the finalle is the one who can attack/defend better.

    Notes:
    Sorry for taking so long to update the map, It's my last year at school so I got a lot of studying to do. To be honest It took me like 2 and a half months to update this map but I only worked on the map for half a month really. Yesterday I did pretty much 80% of the new design for point C and I am happy with how it turned out. I want to thank my friend Cig who gave me feedback about that point in particular and helped me fix the problems it had. And of course to all of you who support my maps and I.
    My plan for moving forward is this:
    I want to rework point B as well, fix all the problems it has and give it a better layout overall. Honestly I am happy with the rest of the points as of now. People seem to dislike last but I am a fan of it, I enjoy how hard it is to defend it. Now that I fixed the height differences maybe it will help the situation. I want to test the hell out of that map this christmas and see where it goes.
    As far sharkbay is concerned, I am reworking the mid area .( where the point is. ) the new idea is to have the point on top of the ship, I will see what I can do.

    That's for now, feel free to tell me your opinion about my maps as well as give me your feedback. See ya



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  12. RevolutionTeam

    RevolutionTeam L4: Comfortable Member

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    It was very much worth the wait.
     
  13. pont

    aa pont look at my fursona

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    hey basil!
    a22 was better than previous versions - cutting off the upper route at A let teams stick together and focused the combat more, which is a step in the right direction. the changes at C weren't impactful, though - every time i've played this map, nobody went through the back of C anyway, and the new highground is so completely exposed (and sentries there outranged) that it's effectively useless for the defending team.
    upload_2019-12-30_0-45-13.png
    like previous versions, RED tended to cluster around the inside corner and spam down onto BLU. upload_2019-12-30_0-44-33.png
    last remained a BLU roll, but i'll go into that later.

    for a23 i'd suggest taking a swing at major changes to the most problematic areas of the map people have been leaving feedback on for the past dozen versions - no amount of tweaking adjacent areas will improve them.
    since you seem to have struggled with ideas on how to improve areas and have asked for detailed suggestions in the past, i hope the following helps.
    for B, it might be worth trying a similar approach to A - cut off the rightmost flank, allowing both teams to focus their efforts closer to the cart.
    upload_2019-12-30_0-49-48.png
    adding a quicker way for BLU to rotate between the remaining flanks would also help. i suggest removing the blind dropdown, too, to simplify the layout. nobody typically uses it because they're dropping down into a long sightline with no idea if it's safe or not.
    upload_2019-12-30_0-54-4.png
    B has had issues with BLU reaching RED's forward spawnpoint. closing off this route with a door that only opens upon B's capture would help reduce spawncamping by blocking off the flank route behind RED's entire defense, and would further direct BLU players back toward the cart.
    upload_2019-12-30_1-0-7.png

    now, last. in attack/defend maps, the final point typically gives the defenders a bit of an advantage - it's a back-to-the-wall last-ditch all-out defense, scrambling to keep a win from the encroaching attacking team. defenders typically enjoy a relatively close resupply room and comfortable highground. it's the climax of the map and should be the hardest push for the attacking team.
    upload_2019-12-30_1-33-11.png
    in eruption, however, C is the most difficult point to push (when RED has time to get established); last has highground that's given to BLU team on a silver platter.
    upload_2019-12-30_1-33-28.png
    let's go over it.

    BLU's exit onto their highground is covered and safe from where RED usually are. RED have to actively push up to even get a shot in.
    upload_2019-12-30_1-19-50.png
    this means BLU can choose when to engage RED. if they're not prepared, they're fine, since they have safe cover. but if RED aren't prepared...
    upload_2019-12-30_1-21-3.png
    BLU can freely harass them across the entire last part of the map, including right up to their spawn, all from the safety of their highground where they can choose to disengage at any time. they also, through the window, get free info on what RED is doing across the whole area at any time.
    upload_2019-12-30_1-23-9.png
    BLU also get this window overlooking both routes that could be used to flank them (if RED manage to, somehow, survive traversing through the area that BLU has complete control over thanks to their highground).
    upload_2019-12-30_1-24-1.png
    after that, RED have to fight uphill to get around to the highground, completely exposed to fire from BLU players returning from spawn. said respawning BLU players can easily reestablish a hold on this highground because of how easy it is to get back up there.
    the presence of ammo and health inside the highground also helps BLU to reestablish a hold very easily.

    so, how would this be fixed? there are a lot of ways to explore. i propose this:
    upload_2019-12-30_1-28-48.png
    giving RED easy access to this area to dislodge BLU would encourage BLU to go elsewhere and ease most of the problems that result from this area in every prior playtest. removing the glass in the window will allow RED demomen to spam into the room, further discouraging BLU engineers. additionally, this will force combat into other areas instead of between RED spawn and this balcony, lowering the average engagement distance and generally making it more fun to play (remember, damage falloff exists).

    keep in mind that these changes won't solve everything immediately - but they'll be a change to the areas of the map that most direly need it, and from there you'll be able to fix emerging smaller issues that were previously eclipsed.

    this map has a load of potential - don't be afraid to make big changes to the core parts! looking forward to a23.
     

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  14. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    thanks for your detailed feedback my man. I will do the best I can
     
  15. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    In this version:

    -Point B-

    *Closed a few routes to re-direct the gameplay focus around the map.
    *Readded the staircase going up to the waterfall flank
    *Got rid of the drop down flank
    *Added 2 closed doors to prevent players from going to the wrong area + to avoid engineers from going behind Red team and setting up.

    ---Point D---

    *Got rid of the health and ammo pack at that highground room above redspawn
    * changed the windows overlooking last
    *Instead of a big balcony, now there are 2 windows that blue can use to attack-spam from
    *blocked off the window on that room as well.

    Notes:
    That aint much but it's honest work. I decided to listen. Yeah I did. Happy now? hahaha oh lol. Now for serious, I may not like some of those changes, I am going to be honest, I have a specific vision for the map but if it means that the gameplay is going to suffer for it then I am going to let some of it go.
    Sorry that I didnt release a bigger update, I said I am reworking Point B, Which I am, for months now.I was not in the mood to work the past few days, I have been feeling weird as of late, not sure why but I will try to get back to mapping ASAP.
    About point B I started it from the beginning so many times but with little to no success unfortunately. I dont know what goes wrong, I just fall back to the existing layout. I keep getting stuck. I find it easier to come up with a new design altogether for a new map that rework the existing one. Dunno why.

    Anywayz, thats for now

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  16. basilhs333

    basilhs333 L10: Glamorous Member

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    In this version:

    (There was a leak so I am reuploading the same stuff twice here)

    -Point B-

    *Closed a few routes to re-direct the gameplay focus around the map.
    *Readded the staircase going up to the waterfall flank
    *Got rid of the drop down flank
    *Added 2 closed doors to prevent players from going to the wrong area + to avoid engineers from going behind Red team and setting up.

    ---Point D---

    *Got rid of the health and ammo pack at that highground room above redspawn
    * changed the windows overlooking last
    *Instead of a big balcony, now there are 2 windows that blue can use to attack-spam from
    *blocked off the window on that room as well.

    Notes:
    That aint much but it's honest work. I decided to listen. Yeah I did. Happy now? hahaha oh lol. Now for serious, I may not like some of those changes, I am going to be honest, I have a specific vision for the map but if it means that the gameplay is going to suffer for it then I am going to let some of it go.
    Sorry that I didnt release a bigger update, I said I am reworking Point B, Which I am, for months now.I was not in the mood to work the past few days, I have been feeling weird as of late, not sure why but I will try to get back to mapping ASAP.
    About point B I started it from the beginning so many times but with little to no success unfortunately. I dont know what goes wrong, I just fall back to the existing layout. I keep getting stuck. I find it easier to come up with a new design altogether for a new map that rework the existing one. Dunno why.

    Anywayz, thats for now

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