CP Pinnacle a11

Made by Tarry H Sruman

  1. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Under the guise of Redwood Peak Research and Development, Red has established a massive facility atop a mountain. They are surely using it for nefarious purposes and it must be destroyed. Fortunately, mercenaries are here to answer the call.

    Pinnacle is a 3-stage Attack/Defend map in the vein of Dustbowl. The theme is based around a huge mountaintop base that Blu has to capture.

    Yes, the deathpits gib. No, it isn't going away before Beta.

    I'm keeping a detailed changelog, since I find that writing down my decisions helps me identify and shoot down retarded ideas before I waste time implementing them. You can read it here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  2. Dïcecübe

    Dïcecübe L3: Member

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    Excuse me for judging the map with only the pictures. But I think there's too much open windows in that building near the point in picture 2 and 4. Maybe close/cover 1-2 of them? Otherwise I think everything else seems to be fine to me. Inculding a picture you posted in the "Wip in a Wip"-thread.
     
  3. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Only 2 of the windows are open. On the second stage I used the glass props instead of glass textured brushes to make it more visible, but I didn't go back and do it to stage 1.
     
  4. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Thanks to everyone who played today for the metric buttload of feedback. I'll get on implementing it asap.
     
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  5. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Updated to a2.

    Changes:
    -Increased setup times
    -Increased cap times
    -New Red spawnroom on stage 1
    -Shifted routes before 2-1
    -Compressed the big building overlooking 2-1
    -Redesigned area between 2-1 and 2-2
     
  6. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Updated to a3

    Changes:
    -Fixed the myriad entity issues
    -Moved barriers at 2-2 to prevent defenders from walking out of spawn and directly into the deathpit
    -Added a tunnel underneath the 1-1 building
    -Enlarged 1-1’s cap area and reduced the cap time by 3 seconds
    -Redesigned Blu’s initial spawn
    -Increased Red spawn times on 1-2
    -Added stage 3

    Yes, this is late. I forgot to update the thread.

    Feedback is appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  7. Kill_the_Bug

    Kill_the_Bug L14: Epic Member

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    Damn I can no longer walk out of the spawn and into a death pit? Shame on you!!
     
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  8. nightwatch

    aa nightwatch

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    Your in-depth changelog is a very good read. I like the way your mind is going.
     
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  9. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Updated to a4!

    Changelog:
    -Moved pickups around at 1-2 to favor defenders on the high ground
    -Shifted the barrels before 1-2 to be slightly less favorable for sentries
    -Decreased Red spawntimes at 1-2 slightly
    -Opened up the building around 2-1 and added a balcony
    -Moved pickups around behind 2-1 to help defenders
    -Removed glass from all three windows in the building overlooking 2-1
    -Heavily redesigned 2-2
    -Heavily redesigned 3-2 and the area between 3-1 and 3-2
     
  10. nightwatch

    aa nightwatch

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    One thing I've noticed is that with the exception of stage 1, your second point is always the central focus of the point room, along with the red spawn. To some extent, I think this makes your second stage feel a bit like a final stage. If you found a way to move the red spawn so that it wasn't as central, I think it could benefit the overall feel of your map.
     
  11. JeanPaul

    JeanPaul L4: Comfortable Member

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    Im very excited to test A4
     
  12. nightwatch

    aa nightwatch

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    After the successful hold of RED on 2-2 yet again, I went over the area to see what the problem might be. My main conclusion is that there is no decent way for BLU to approach the point. Let me illustrate this with a picture:

    [​IMG]

    The blue "X"s mark BLU's decent hold positions to set up teleporters or forward nests, for medics to build uber from, and for soldiers and demomen to spam from.
    The red "X"s mark RED's potential nest positions. While few of them have cover, they are generally closer to the point and far more numerous than any of BLU's positions. Also, look how far away BLU is forced to hold from the point! This prevents BLU from ever really getting to fight on even terms, instead being reduced to spamming from the doors and dying when they rush in. I can predict that if a team ever managed to push through, it would be because they had pushed RED so far back that RED is stuck in their spawn.

    In conclusion, BLU needs a closer route to the point, or at least a route that doesnt involve deathpits on either side. I think that a comfortable solution would be one where the geometry supported holding positions like this, or with similar distances: [​IMG]
     
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  13. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    Here ya go.

    [​IMG]

    This area is too large the RED team is easily overcome. Cut it.

    [​IMG]

    This staircase give a way too big advantage for the BLU, if nobody could come over here the ramp above the point could make a nice sentry nest.

    [​IMG]

    When I was engi, I found this area clearly too poor in ammo, put a 50% ammobox here.

    [​IMG]

    I think you should regulate more the gameplay here, BLU and RED are facing directly by every paths and this is not really fun. This one provide also a pretty sentry nest.

    [​IMG]

    Sentry nest.

    [​IMG]

    This area is clearly too wide and don't regulate well the players and from where they come, prevent the BLU to take this path, it will make a nice defensive position for REDs.

    [​IMG]

    Put a staircase here, it will lead the players to the objective really fast, but it's a really dangerous path.

    [​IMG]

    For the 2-2, it's seems like there is nothing advantageous for the BLU team, create some zone where both teams are equal.

    [​IMG]

    It's maybe an idea to cut the sightline.

    Also for the 2-2 the respawn time for the RED team was way too fast, add 5sec at least for them.

    Overall the map lacks of a real flow, everyone comes from everywhere wich is not a good thing for an A/D map, regulate the paths and think more about the advantage you will give to the players by using them.
     
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  14. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    The area in the top right was being used to build uber and wait for a push, yes, but it was so open, easy to flank and hard to hold that in the end it wasn't actually a good spot. Try and get rid of some of the routes going through it, put some better pickups so an Engineer can establish a forward base, and it will be a nice (but still flankable) spot that gives BLU some height advantage before they have to go down through a valley again to attack.
     
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  15. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    1. The beginning of the first stage area is deliberately difficult/nigh impossible for Red to hold. It's supposed to act as a "lobby" area for attacks into the point building. I do agree that the point itself should be a bit more defensible and I will look into it.

    2. I like your idea for the bridge building at 1-2, I'll play with it in the next couple of versions. However, the barrels are already a really nasty sentry spot and I have no intention of making it worse.

    3. Making the big building at 2-1 favor Red and removing the side route would probably help a lot. I've been planning major changes to that area and I'll probably incorporate that idea. The staircase idea, though, is bad. I did something similar to that in the first alpha and it was terrible. When the attackers have a route that is that much more direct than the others, they don't use anything else and just manspam it.

    4. I'm working on making 2-2 better since it was the big problem area in the last test. I've already made progress on making the two flanks easier to hold and I've given the attackers a window from which they can shoot at sentries from a safe distance, but is still in a location where Red can force them out, so it isn't an invincible spam nest.
     
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  16. nightwatch

    aa nightwatch

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    i still think you should make it a tiny bit easier to climb the barrels/rock at 2-1 though.
     
  17. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    [​IMG]

    I think you should make some path leading up there, otherwise when approaching the area, getting up is rather uncomfortable which leads to best path for attacking being used less than it should.

    Also note that the 2-2 layout is quite similar to that of Junction last except this is wider, but Junction has more paths :p
     
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  18. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

    Messages:
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    Updated to a5

    Changelog:
    -Tweaked respawn times on every point to varying degrees
    -Changed pickup placement at 2-2
    -Added a third floor balcony to Blu’s left route at 2-2
    -Moved Blu’s right route to 2-2 forward slightly and modified the entrance
    -Expanded the lower route to 2-2
    -Added a side room with stairs just after 2-1 for easy access to the upper routes
    -Shrunk the building overlooking 2-1 and removed its balcony

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

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    I'm a bit sad to see that you didn't take my feedback into consideration that much. Anyway.

    [​IMG]

    This is a really long sightline and it probably broke the sentry nest wich is in this house, also all your exits are all on the same level, this is really boring and not really interesting like that, do a small door wich lead to the top part directly, and add a cover between the spawn and the house.

    [​IMG]

    Doing something like that is anti-gameplay, you still let the possibility to the engineer to build their sentry at the same spot, but to avoid a too much easy defence you just put an overpowered deck for the attackers. I don't think it's good, either for the REDs than the BLUs, I wouldn't like to play engineer here, knowing that you have a good sentry spot here but you can't put your sentry here because you will be fired up by soldiers/snipers without having the possibility to do something.

    So no I don't like this idea, maybe you should ditch a lot of things here and start over.
     
  20. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    Updated to a6

    -Spawn and cap times adjusted by a few seconds at 1-1 and 1-2.
    -Added more railings around the map’s many deathpits
    -Removed one of the bridges at 1-2
    -Added a small raised ledge just before 1-2
    -Broke up the raised route to 1-1
    -Enlarged the balcony overlooking the first yard
    -Changed pickups around stage 1
    -Moved one of the large boulders at 2-1 to block a sightline

    Screenshots and detailed changelog available here.
     
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