Overwatch

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Icarus, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    [​IMG]

    Some of you already know, some of you have already played an earlier iteration of it, but Psy and I are a part of the dev team working on Overwatch, an HL2 MOD.

    It's an FPS/RTS Hybrid, with a team of rebels (FPS) cooperating to fight against a single Overwatch player (RTS) to complete various objectives. It's been only a couple months since our first public release.

    Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9QjULcrOQ
    Site: http://www.moddb.com/mods/overwatch
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  2. lana

    aa lana Currently On: ?????

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    Everytime you guys are in the dev version I feel a little sad.
     
  3. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Very nice indeed, I loved the trailer.
     
  4. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Looks neat, I may have to check it out. However, I see one glaringly bad thing from the trailer that I am quite literally dumbfounded at. FRIEND and ENEMY? Who on earth thought it was a good idea to go against years of gaming convention - nay, conventions of reality (stop signs, blood, warning lights) - that say "red = danger".

    edit: looking back at it I see that rebels are red and combine are blue, there just wasn't much overwatch viewpoint footage. But I still think this needs to be changed.
     
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  5. skinnynerd

    skinnynerd L2: Junior Member

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    holy shit!

    /me downloads
     
  6. Owlruler

    Owlruler L12: Fabulous Member

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    Well at least we didn't get killed by a strider <.<
     
  7. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

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    How does the overwatch camera handle indoors? Looks pretty cool, the trailer was a bit long and wasn't good at telling what's going on. also you removed me from steam :c
     
  8. Moose

    Moose L6: Sharp Member

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    Looks great.

    I only wish there could be more actual player vs. player fighting. Fighting against npcs is predictable, mindless killing. Giving them more health is just frustrating.

    After playing tons of hours of co-op on HL2DM and Obsidian Conflict, I'm pretty certain the culprit behind monotonous gameplay is linear objectives. When you make a group of players go in the same direction, fighting the same enemies, they all just become a group shooting in a straight line, barely remembering any objective other than 'follow everybody else'. If you split players up, however, they think and fight by themselves, which makes things more interesting.

    At the very least, players should feel like they're important, for reasons other than stealing an occasional kill from another person.

    I've played way too many mods where gameplay feels uninvolved, so hopefully you guys are doing a good job with this and my remarks are irrelevant.
     
  9. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    So is this sort of one player per team, or can multiple people be on each team?
     
  10. Rasputin

    Rasputin L3: Member

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    That looks well worth checking out.
     
  11. lana

    aa lana Currently On: ?????

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    It's like Zombie Master. Rebels are all first person, while one other player commands the combine.
     
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  12. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

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    My biggest issue with it is that noone is ever playing.

    Also, kudos on the auto-update.

    Im curious what you guys think about Nuclear Dawn.
     
  13. Rikka

    Rikka L5: Dapper Member

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    Just noticed this. Love these kinds of games. Can't wait to check it out.
     
  14. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    It's only visible in the dev build (for testing) and not in actual public releases.
     
  15. Okrag

    aa Okrag Wall Staples

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    TOO MANY MANHACKS! Also riot shields and turret placement is awkward.
     
  16. Numerous

    Numerous L4: Comfortable Member

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    First of all, can I say "ouch" at 5:48 to 5:51 (or so). FACE STOMP

    Secondly, incoming wall of text:

    I think the problem here is that without different opponent behaviour (note: I'm not talking about tactics here, although it would usually be the same thing) the different tactics of the AI (which stems from the combine player's commands, obviously) are lost in a sea of monotony.
    ie the shoot 'n' slaughter is still boring, no matter how you switch it up. I personally think that the first step would be tweaking the AI, which would probably be for the best as the default AI behaviour wouldn't be optimised in combination with the combine player's instructions anyways.

    Linear objectives turn it more into "ZERG RUSH!" quite often, with the way it's implemented in HL2 co-op etc, and delinearising would help change that and as a result make it more inherently fun, as it would promote player decision making (meaningful decision = good), but that doesn't magically solve the issue of monotonous gameplay.

    Personally, I think we need to step away from the single-player pistol/smg/shotgun/rocket/1HKO wep weapons system, as it was designed to slowly introduce you to weapons, and slowly gain power, with an assumption that you will always live to use everything you have (in SP games, you reload with the same weapons, and hve the same opportunity to use them in the same situations, but in MP you respawn).

    The massive number of HL2DM mods have all shown me that copying HL2's weapons and putting them in a multiplayer environment was NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. more below.

    True. I think the solution here though is just to not have one single straight bottlenecks, and instead have multiple paths along the way (which is a given, take any TF2 map, or any of the overwatch maps either) and then encourage use of tactics, not just ZERG RUSH!!1!!1! Of course, multiple objectives isn't a bad way of achieving this.

    Now, for my own wall of text:

    First of all, I agree with moose's last line (in above quote), and I personally recommend using iterative design (valve uses it, explanation of what it is here). Let's face it, theory isn't practice, and some of the stuff you think will be a problem just isn't the case in practice.

    Second of all, I think you should heavily revamp the weapons system. As mentioned above, the weapons aren't particularly balanced (if you can switch fast enough, you can unload shotgun ammo, then SMG ammo, then pistol ammo, before having to reload). There are several thing I recommend doing:
    • First, I think you should limit the number of weapons held at a time to maybe 3 slots + class/melee slot, MAX. It encourages meaningful decision making, limits spam, limits the amount of inventory you have to keep track of (in single-player, it doesn't change after you die, it's just sent back maybe 2 minutes to your last save, whereas in multiplayer you respawn with different weapons entirely, and pick up stuff on the go all over again, and faster), and besides, you already have half the system in place (a "drop weapon" button, just change it to class weapon, and then have a "press use to pick up weapon").
    • Then, I'd set the class weapons to also be the melee weapon (so the medkit would be in one hand, crowbar in the other, mouse1 to kill, mouse2 to heal, whereas for the crowbar+shield, just remove the normal crowbar and have the shield+crowbar in it's place)
    • Change the weapons to be more equal, so the pistol isn't completely inferior to the SMG (for example), and so they are all generally more different for eachother, and useful in different ways.

    Also, (I know several other people have complained about this, and I can understand why) the enemies all have too much individual HP. It's really annoying to not have any input when you empty a shotgun shot into a combine's head at point blank and not have anything happen. So I reccomend this:
    • Increase the number of enemies spawned, per enemy spawn
    • Decrease each enemy's hp
    • Decrease the damage each enemy does
    Now people get to see the results of that entire SMG clip they emptied!

    Also, for ow_breach (most recent map I played), I've noticed that the "gather explosive cannister" is kinda clunky/laggy, when you actually carry them. Why not just set it as a viewmodel, L4D style? It's basically the same thing.

    That's about it, and I get the feeling that my "HL2 weps arent too balanced for SP" comment will be the most controversial, so can I just ask, WHY keep the HL2 default weapons? Not only are they unbalanced in general for multiplayer, but they're also entirely unoriginal. The only reason I could think of is story and "realism", and the story can easily be fixed with "different weapons back then" or something, and the realism doesn't really apply in sci-fi, and can easily be fixed with a plausible technobabble explanation.

    Also, I took a while to do my research and type this, so it might not have a reply to the most recent comments.