Overpass

Penguin

Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome
aa
May 21, 2009
2,039
1,484
yo stink where are the tnt dumptrucks?
 
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Exist

L6: Sharp Member
Oct 31, 2009
306
136
Dynamite dumptruck ;)
Don't forget about that jump Nik showed you. Also, optimize.
 

Stink Horse

L2: Junior Member
Aug 1, 2009
73
23
Koth_OverpassA2 Test Results 2:
Got some play time in today with a small group. Nik, Penguin, Luck, Super Sandvich, Exist and Eveo poked around and came up with some really great feedback. Sometimes it's those little matches where you learn the most!

Primary
Bomb Should Destroy Buildings - Penguin just hooked me up with a new hurt trigger that solved this problem so come Alpha 3 engineers beware building on the point!

DUMP TRUCKS FILLED WITH DYNAMITE - The second Penguin mentioned this in the match everyone started hooting for it like whooping retards. IT HAD TO GO IN. Initial tests are proving awesome/explosive. They're grinding through the floor so I have to figure out the exact number to lift them up to above collision but this is probably the best thing to happen to the map since Booj showed me what was wrong with my trains.

Secondary
Water In the Sluice - Still no progress here but I have plans to rebuild the sluice which might help that some. I'm going to remove the sharp half pipe in favor of a more angular waterway. I'll add in a sharper slant to the ramps half way into the sluice along with a set of access stairs to one side. This should help contain any water toward the center. The map needs some water in it to help douse pyro flames, but it's so localized that it shouldn't be overpowered. This will be helped by the fact that getting back out and back up to the point will take longer than it takes getting down.

Tertiary
Replace Explosion Damage w/ Generic Damage - Currently the bomb explosion is gibbing everyone it touches. I'm going to switch this over to generic because flying bodies is funnier than flying body parts.

Optimization - While there are still alterations and updates to be made, the actual construction of the map itself is winding down thus as Exist suggests it's time to start thinking about optimizations. I've attempted to put area portals in the map before, to disastrous results, and I'm really not sure how to effectively use hint brushes to the greatest effect. I'll probably start asking a LOT of questions once I get to work on this task.

Scale The Map Down a Bit - With the latest test I've believe I've ruled this out, baring a catastrophic game play discovery. A Heavy has no trouble getting to the outside of the point in seconds so this shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone!
 
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BrokenTripod

L5: Dapper Member
May 11, 2009
248
65
No organized thoughts here, just rant rant rant. Some as a reminder.

Playerclip the top of the spawns
Make the respawn visualizer the whole length of the door

Could you make it so the window is slightly shorter right after leaving the spawn and hugging the left and going up the set of stairs? Not really a big deal, I just didn't like it.

I thought I would have more, but that's about it..? I don't know, I'll try to write things down next time, I guess.
 

Stink Horse

L2: Junior Member
Aug 1, 2009
73
23
Koth_OverpassA2 Test Results 3:
Nik got a good sized test going tonight and Overpass Alpha 2 got a swarm of mappers in it trying out all the weird things they could think of. All of the standard issues for A2 still apply but there were a few good suggestions tonight as well as a critical sight line discovery.

Primary
Randomize Bomb Entry - This was a new one, the suggestion being to randomize the bomb entry between one minute and a minute and thirty seconds. I think I'll try this out in alpha 3 as it'll likely bring in the bomb sooner, but not too soon, and it could potentially take just as long as it does now. It removes the anguish of decision from my hands. Soooo lazy :D

Mega Sight Line from Overlook Ramp - This was a bad one that Supersandvich found. You can basically pop a dumb bib wearing dope from across the map. NO GOOD. I'm thinking a clear overhang (chicken wire) and another fence blocking the lower sight line should do it. It feels heavy handed though, and with it's entry it makes me wonder about the other fence that bisects the map from the cargo containers to the point. Any thoughts?

Bomb Should Destroy Buildings - Fixed in alpha 3.

DUMP TRUCKS FILLED WITH DYNAMITE - In for alpha 3.

Secondary
Water In the Sluice - Currently being worked on. The sluice has stairs now, and I'm trying to figure out the best way of allowing people to pass through it quickly if they dont want to go for a dip. Maybe floating tires and planks of wood...

Tertiary
Replace Explosion Damage w/ Generic Damage - In for alpha 3. If anyone knows how to get bodies to fly farther please let me know.

Mark Off Explosion Radius - This was suggested tonight, and while it's a good one, I don't think I'm going to do it just yet. I can see that encouraging a team to run just outside of the blast range and then race back in. Currently there's a terrified hauling of ass off the point, not to mention people calling it out and working as a team. This is all stuff I like, which I believe runs counter to the result of outlining the blast radius.

Optimization - This is getting really close to being moved up to Secondary on the list of things to be concerned about. Lots of people were having issues with how the map runs tonight which is a huge concern for me. the map runs fine on my machine, but it's a beast so I'm not the person to ask about this. I'm also really unclear as to when and where I should be using hints, so I'll probably be asking questions in regard to this before too long. One of the suggestions was to keep the map relatively light on detail, which is a crying shame. I really wanted to go to town on this beast, but oh well, live and learn.

Thanks again for the feedback everyone!
 

Rikka

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 10, 2009
208
388
Get that healthpack below the point reduced to a medium. With all the other medium nearby a small wouldn't be out of the question either, but then that would really reduce the urge players would have to go down there. There really wasn't any problems with people staying alive really long because of the kits, so a medium is probably fine.
 

Fireman

L4: Comfortable Member
Mar 21, 2008
150
59
Thinking on it some more after the test, just remove that small health and ammo outside the spawns altogether, it really serves no use outside of camping, and there's plenty of health and ammo throughout the map as is.

The healthpack under mid probably shouldn't drop down any lower than medium sized, without it the area just doesn't have the same draw, and hey, anything to help attackers wipe defenders off the point.
 

Stink Horse

L2: Junior Member
Aug 1, 2009
73
23
Koth_OverpassA3 Test Results 1:
Good test tonight with plenty of people running around the map. The layout is feeling pretty solid and I don't think I'll need more than a few tweaks at this point. I'm feeling pretty good about how everything plays and the feedback has been very positive. Got two primary bug this week which is awesome, but man it's they're doozies.

Primary
Bomb Truck Blocking - Not sure how this is being done but it's possible to block the bomb truck temporarily if you stand at just the right angle on the outer deck of the point. I think I can fix this by increasing the size of the truck's kill box into the ground and pushing it out in front of it a wee bit.

Slanted Roof Over Spawn - You can totally reach this with a short hop as an engineer and then it's SPAWN CAMP CITY. Gonna raise the roof (no pun intended) to fix this bug.
UPDATE: I'm getting a lot of feedback not to RAISE THE ROOF. Apparently I'm terminally unhip, so instead I'm going to throw a clip on it and maybe some props to make it look too busy to land on.

Secondary
Stairs To Window - The stairs leading up to the window in the building just outside of the spawn are just too popular. I had wanted players to use the other routes more frequently but it's like watching lemmings march out an airlock. I think that by adjusting the angle of the stairs I can make it less of an impulse route and more of a tactical decision.

Reduce Health Under Point - the mega health under the point is so attractive that people race down there after taking any damage. It also makes securing the point easier because once you have the point you just loop through the sluice, heal up, and then assault anyone that's on the point with full health. A medium health might be less attractive but still worth going for if you're already in the neighborhood.

Remove Health Outside Of Spawn - Another potential way to spawn camp. What is this, 2Fort?

Tertiary
Increase Water Texture Scale - Right now the water texture is too big, fast fix.

Set Back Spawn Point - While the spawns are pretty nice right now there's a sense that based on the position of the players on spawn that you dont notice or think of the overpass route. As a result of this someone actually asked me where the overpass was in the map. This was terribly embarrassing, so I think I'm going to make a dedicated spytech spawn room. With this added I can set back the spawning area back farther in the garage, allowing the players to visually take in both the primary exit as well as the stairs to the overpass route as well. And besides who doesnlt want to detail a sweet spytech area of their level?

Thanks again for the feedback everyone!
 
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Stink Horse

L2: Junior Member
Aug 1, 2009
73
23
Koth_OverpassA3 Test Results 2:
Good test tonight, no one noticed the Bomb Block bug, DOUBLE THUMBS UP. Everyone had a good time especially when they saw the truck for the first time, most often from somewhere around it's undercarriage. At one point the bomb blast caught four unwary souls and we all had a good laugh. I wasn't really paying attention to issues this evening, seeing as I've mentally moved on to Alpha 4 and all the things I want to do with that. The issue of the mega health under the point came up again, though this time the suggestion was to split it into two mediums. We'll see. I'll probably start with a single medium health and feel it out.

The big plan coming up for Alpha 4 is the redesign of the bomb route into the point. Right now you run up two angled bridges and it's not a shallow angle. The truck looks kinda silly going up and over those lines, so i'm going to replace the ramp entirely. In A4 they'll be completely suspended instead of resting on one side and the bomb entrance will be elevated to match. There will effectively be a road running through the center of the map that the bomb travels down. I'm a little worried that people will feel this is too much like other existing Koth maps, such as Languid's Koth_Peaks, but the more I think about it the more this seems like a good idea. This either means I'm right, or that there's an imbalance in my brain where thoughts become more awesome with time regardless of what reality might say.

Personal Note: dominating six people on my own map feels pretty goddamned good. You all should try it sometime.

Primary
Bomb Truck Blocking - I'm pretty sure what's going on here is the truck is set to V Physics collision. Switching that to no collision would likely fix this. Changing the vast majority of the level's layout might also fix it. I'm gonna go with that second thing.

Slanted Roof Over Spawn - Fixed as of A4.

Stairs To Window - I'm tired of watching both myself and others jettison ourselves out this window. It is officially the Airlock now and it needs to go. I'm going to have the stairs wrap around the room in a different fashion and move up the alley exit.

The Whole Middle Bomb Path - This includes the bomb path, the middle point, the overlook, the route up to the overlook, and even the bomb tunnel itself are all getting a significant update come A4. We'll see how it plays then and decide if I have a brain tumor or not. Hey, it's my old nemesis, A TRUCK!

(bonus points to whoever gets that reference)

Secondary
Reduce Health Under Point - This issue got some play again tonight. It's definitely changing come A4.

Remove Health Outside Of Spawn - Fixed as of A4.

Tertiary
Increase Water Texture Scale - No update here yet, this is pretty far down the to do list.

Set Back Spawn Point - This is probably getting bumped up here in a short bit. It seems important, but it's also a lot of work when I'm already reinventing the center of the map. We'll see if it manages to edge anything out in the upcoming week.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
 

Stink Horse

L2: Junior Member
Aug 1, 2009
73
23
Koth_OverpassA5 Test Results 1:
At this point Overpass is pretty much a new map and everyone seems to appreciate that fact. There are some major issues though and I'm not terribly certain how to tackle them. The sniper lines are killer, the Engineer's eye of sauron needs to be challenged in some way, and the height differences at the point itself feel pretty brutal. I'll be looking into this to see what I can do, but shy of compartmentalizing the world around the point I'm uncertain how to fix these issues. Maybe the point just needs to be raised a little bit off the ground, rather than the full 128 or so it is now. Some thoughts on this from anyone would be appreciated, though I'm willing to bet I wont really be certain until the next play test.


Primary
Cut the Sight Lines - The lines wouldn't be so bad if there were a million of them and the snipers just started eating the dick off each other, but as it stands they get their back up against the walls and go shithouse on everyone. The engineers do pretty much the same thing with the wrangler. I both love and hate that monstrosity.

Slanted Roof Overlook - This needs to go. It's a major contributor to the above sniper line problems. This will also allow me to get rid of the stairs in the side route that accesses the overlook, letting me tighten up that area some.

Spawn Pushes - There needs to be a fuzziness to the routes leading out from the spawns in order to discourage spawn pushes. It existed in the earlier versions of the map, but seems to have vanished in the latest. That shouldn't be too hard to add back in, but getting the new paths to feel natural could prove difficult. Adding a 2nd spawn exit on an entirely separate path couldn't hurt.


Secondary
Consider Normalizing the Level Heights - This would be a super big job, but could improve the feelings of advantage/disadvantage that occur everywhere. I don't know if anyone else noticed this but there's an anxiety that pretty much exists no matter where you are on the map. The lower areas are subject to dominance by attackers on the point and the bridge, anyone on the bridge is under threat by snipers, and anyone on the point is under attack from EVERYWHERE. There needs to be relative positions of strength and weakness in the map and right now there simply aren't any.

Deepen Water - The whole point of that stuff is to put out fires and if it doesn't then why is it there? A pretty simple fix.

Displacement Pass - I said I was going to try displacements again and I'm being a big coward for not doing them.


Tertiary
Increase Water Texture Scale - Still no update here yet, this is pretty far down the to do list.


Thanks to everyone who helped test, and special thanks to Snacks, Absurdist, Matt and Nine who all helped with layout and train scripting on this latest version!
 

owly-oop

im birb
aa
Apr 14, 2009
819
1,215
I felt the middle had the corners which were flat and empty. Not very interesting to fight on. Other than what you mentioned then it looks like you have everything you need for your next version.
koth_overpass_a50003.jpg


koth_overpass_a50004.jpg


I also noticed a lack of teamcoloring at the middle. The only thing you have are the red and blue containers uptop which I didn't notice ingame

Even with the problems, i still had fun on the map.
EXPLOSIVE TRUCKS WOOOOO!

also
koth_overpass_a50002.jpg
 
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