Option For Authors to Choose Item Whitelist

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Trotim, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    Simple really, just like the choice of having crits on/off it would be nice if a map author could choose testing to happen with a certain item whitelist, like e.g. ETF2L weapon bans.

    Making a separate item_whitelist file is not really hard at all and they can be changed on the fly (but I think it requires a map restart so that'd have to be done before mapchange). Ideally it could be automated just like the crits should be automated to be on/off depending on author's choice

    You could say banning items like the Wrangler could skew testing since some SG spots would be a lot less viable but to be fair it adds more flaws to maps than it added fun in the first place, plus all the old maps had no Wrangler either and normal Sniper sightlines still apply
     
  2. DaBeatzProject

    aa DaBeatzProject

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    I dont get the point i fear... Why would you whitelist items in a playtest, while the point of a playtest is to test the map and all it's factors? If your map does have problems with "overpowered wrangler sentryguns" then it's the author's job to fix that.. You can't expect every server that plays your map to block half of the game's weapons.

    The weapons are in the game, and if you don't want to use them, don't - but don't expect players to do the same. Or you could always test your map with bots then.
     
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  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I know why you want this, but it's just going to alienate random players, confuse a ton of our existing players, and there are better places for whitelisted testing.

    I don't really think this is the environment for this.
     
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  4. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    This is a bad idea on a number of points, but I'll try to keep this brief
    1. Those who play in whitelisted environments (i.e. comp) are both used to and enjoy using the weapons outlined in the whitelist. You won't see the same gameplay coming from players who spend the entire map wishing they could use a certain weapon
    2. More hassle for all organizers (no matter the degree this is true)
    3. Good god I wish I had tested for the Wrangler before I finished Frontier
    4. While surely building towards a specific target audience is the goal of many mappers, it should be the goal for nearly everyone here to at least allow for the possibility of other audiences enjoying the map
    5. Changing the ruleset is typically a game designer's job; a level designer's is to develop within that environment. Altering the rules to any larger degree than what can be done after map change is more or less 'cheating', a lazy way to address potential flaws in the level's design by changing the game's. I've been guilty of cheating in this sense and the resulting gameplay almost always feels forced, as it is
    6. Honestly, what spectacular new test results do you think you'll achieve by turning off the shortstop or buff banner?(yes, the wrangler may have a stronger effect but that's a single item) Would they really be so different that it'd warrant this change? There are communities better suited for this type of testing... if anything were to be changed, tf2m would be better off hosting separate gameday/testing sessions where there is a consistent set of rules. IIRC this was done for contest #4
     
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  5. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    Start up Men Without Hats again!

    (now Men Without BadWeapons if valve still stopped getting rid of hats)
     
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  6. REEJ

    REEJ L7: Fancy Member

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    Since a playtest here is 24 players and the competitive matches 6v6 or 9v9 Highlander, you won't get an accurate data out of this either way.

    But the idea isn't all too bad.
     
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  7. Trotim

    aa Trotim

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    I agree with pretty much anything, at least now it's certain this can't/won't be done on TF2M I suppose

    I don't think it's the map author's job to fix unlocks that break the game frankly, it's kind of unfair to say an old map layout is bad because the Wrangler is broken there (it's broken pretty much everywhere anyway)

    Alienating random players, yeah. Confuse a ton of existing players... really? I can't use the Natascha, what ever shall I do? And frankly there actually aren't any good places for whitelisted testing like that...

    Mangy's #4 is actually a point in my favor because other audiences use item whitelists. The rest all applies though but again I really don't think it's the level designer's fault that the game designers screwed up there - I know what you mean but meh. It's a fair point though and makes me want to be more than a TF2 level designer even more.

    Men Without Hats will probably not be revived but there are still plans for some very similar but newer thing.
     
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  8. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I can understand that some weapons are annoying because they are unbalanced but i don't see any reason to create a weapon whitelist for TF2m. Our servers only fill for events and it's expected that all the unlocks are available. Even if some of them are shitty/annoying.
     
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