New map suggestions

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by MaGicBush, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Hey I am currently working on my first map, I decided to make a rats map since there doesn't seem to be very many for TF2. I am basically modeling around my living room, I have the basic layout done and the furniture/scaling correct. I am getting ready to go into the details/texturing. I wanted to get some opinions before I get to far into the map though. My main question is should there be spawn rooms for both teams or random spawns on the map? It will be a dm style map.

    Also the main problem with rat maps on TF2 I could see is the wide open spaces. Currently I have a few spots that are very open and view the entire room. With all the furniture in place and after adding the details I could see it causing performance issues. Any suggestions on how to remedy this? The biggest area right now is between the TV and couch, and looking from the ottoman towards the kitchen(kitchen will not be in this map, I will block off that area somehow).

    On another topic I also was wondering how to make the map dm? I saw tutorials for ctf, etc but nothing for just making a deathmatch map.

    Thanks for any suggestions!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  2. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    No suggestions?
     
  3. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    the reason you probably haven't gotten any suggestions are

    1) the vast majority of this site doesn't like "rats" maps

    2) the vast majority of this site doesn't like "DM" maps, the game wasn't balanced for it

    the problem with rats maps, like you said is having a very wide open space. You are only thinking out the performance issues, you should be thinking about the gameplay issues. Rats maps (at least the ones I have played in the past) generally have a large portion of the map which are camped by snipers, as they are horribly open.

    You're best bet on making a good map this community will embrace is to steer away from both DM and rats maps, also don't touch achievement maps, jump maps, surf maps, or orange maps. All of those you'd be better to ask about at fpsbanana or possibly facepunch.
     
  4. Void

    aa Void Local Man Unable To Map, Sources Say

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    Yeah, please refrain from making Gimmick Maps.
     
  5. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Makes since, but that's why I was asking for some suggestions :). I may go ahead and scrap the idea, but have already spent about a week on it :(.

    One question though that I ran across when I was trying to make a leaky pipe in a wall, how do you make water drip? I have the water below and a splash entity, but how do I get a dripping effect? I cant seem to find any tutorial on how to do this.
     
  6. Void

    aa Void Local Man Unable To Map, Sources Say

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    Particles, but there aren't any singe-droplet particles, methinks.
     
  7. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Ah thanks, yea checked the particle list and dont see one for dripping water.. interesting. Thanks though :).

    I decided to go ahead and scrap the idea, figured it would be a easy first map to make but as I get into it there will be some issues with balance as suggested above. Thought about making a bunch of "rat tunnels" but then no one would go out in the open and just use the tunnels because of snipers. Time to think of something new and hopefully original, back to the drawing board.
     
  8. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    A good first map IMO would be a 5-capture point push map, like granary or well. Making a map like that should give you a good introduction to the key ideas behind TF2 level design.

    Plus, balancing the map is much easier when it's symmetrical. It lets you focus more on what makes a map fun and interesting.

    Fly around Valve's maps and take note of what they do. Granary is probably the simplest example, with a few main paths, a few chokepoints, and a couple side routes. You'll have an easier time in the beginning if you try and mimic Valve and make variations.

    Yeah, don't start with gimmicky maps. You won't learn anything.
     
  9. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    I came up with a different idea, which is to make a dam map, though I do see a dam map being made that is CP but using a strange ruleset(like capturing a point causes the water to raise/lower).


    Good idea Dr.Spud, I just downloaded the "Decompiled Valve Maps" to check them out, I could try a normal cp_dam type map though I am not sure if the textures I would need would be in TF2 already?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  10. Kronixx

    Kronixx L5: Dapper Member

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    Probably gonna be using a lot of Hydro theme textures, i think you can get away with what is there, but you might invest in custom ones or some previously used custom ones to really nail home the theme. But i think you could pull off a dam with the defaults
     
  11. Pyroguy

    Pyroguy L1: Registered

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    Should be fairly simple to add a few sides to your map and at the very least make it use the Arena logic. To avoid sniper fests, just mess up the room; books on the floor, papers, pencils, whatever.
     
  12. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions, not sure which to go with I started the dam map and made the spawn rooms and the main dam area. Was thinking about going with a dam under construction, would be easier than a large "bridge" like area. I am torn between the rats map and the dam, think I will go with the dam for now and I have the base work for the rats map if I decide to go back to it later.

    I would use custom textures but I am not good with pixel art, and don't have much practice. My main areas with modding before coming here to start on maps was with coding, I learned some C++ and built a small game :). Anyone know some good tutorials or spots to find good custom textures for a dam?
     
  13. Kronixx

    Kronixx L5: Dapper Member

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    if you ask nicely and offer some tasty cookies i'm sure someone will come out of the shadows if you ask for some textures to be made. A lot of people here sound like they like to make content for maps than actually mapping. You might just wanna throw up a request and see what you find. Otherwise, check the downloads button at the top and go to textures / materials (whatever its called) and take a scroll through to see what there is.
     
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  14. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks for the tips :).
     
  15. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    I just started the new map based after a dam I found that is under construction. I was wondering on making a cp map how do you build it usually? Like do you layout all the sections with the cp's or do you do one section at a time(I realize this is opinion based, but just wanting the easiest in your opinion)? Example, do you layout the first cp then texture, etc. Then layout the next, or layout all at once then texture?

    I am also planing to have 3 cp's, with fairly small areas and the last cp being the biggest stretch. Thanks for any input!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
  16. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    I don't have an issue with rat maps. If a play area is well done it can be fun no matter the setting. The largest issue is performance, a good mapper can make gameplay good, but the areas required for a rat map are so large it's almost impossible to optimize.
    Tequila is a great example of how a rat map can be interesting and have good areas for all classes. But it is very laggy and nothing can really be done about it.

    Dams can be done. I made one for arena_hoover and I know someone else was working on a dam in construction. There have also been a few other variations.
    One thing to consider is site lines/optimizing. Hoover is on top of the dam so you can see alot of the map from almost any angle. Tough to optimize.
    Hydro was at the base and the dam was a skybox model so it was easy for Valve to optimize that.
    So think about how you are gonna cut off long site lines and limit the playable area, it could easily get out of control trying to optimize.

    But I'd say do the whole layout, then work on more details. Don't think of the map as 3 cap areas (or 5 /whatever). Think of it as 3 main battle zones with 2-3 passages in between each zone. The passages to zones can be very important for defense of the next cap, or places to build foward bases to take the next zone.

    If you build a cap area then think about how players get to/from it you're gonna map yourself into a corner.
     
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  17. Pyroguy

    Pyroguy L1: Registered

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    The idea that these maps can't be "optimized" is ridiculous. The skybox is always rendered in its entirety when it is rendered, hence why you should try to put as little in the skybox as possible. Proper hints and vis portal delineation just requires some careful geometrical thinking, that is all.
     
  18. MaGicBush

    MaGicBush L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks again, I kind of have a different approach opposed to being on top of the dam with my map. I have the drawing aspect done, and the blocks up to the first cp done within Hammer as well. I made it to where you are actually trying to make it to the dam that is under construction and then blow it when blu reaches it. First area is small, just trying to blow a fence with a few different paths to it. Second area will be trying to blow up a crane that is working on the dam, with underground areas and a few path's up top. Then the final area I havn't really made up my mind yet but it will consist of actually blowing up the dam.

    I mine as well post here opposed to making a new topic as I do have one more question. I plan on the first two areas being able to see a large dam in the background, as the points are captured I want it to grow bigger. I currently have a "3d skybox" setup with the camera entity to make it appear 16x larger. But how to do I make the dam appear in different spots and bigger as blu captures points? Thanks for any tips.