New gamemode idea, need balance help.

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Coolz, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. Coolz

    Coolz L2: Junior Member

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    Allright, so I came up with a new gamemode a few weeks ago and am currently making a map for it, I've given this gamemode a lot of thought and I am now thinking of ways to balance it out more, and make it more like an actual tf2-ish gamemode. Hopefully you experts can help me here, so first of all, I need to explain what happens in this gamemode.

    The gamemode runs on a timed one Flag game, like King of The Flag and whatever one-flag gamemode there is, I only know of that one, it only has one flag to capture.
    Unlike those gamemodes only BLU can have that flag, and RED must defend that flag. In a way its like TFC's CP gamemode where you bring a flag to the control point-- you don't have someone stand on it, you have someone bring a flag to it.
    The gamemode should have four points to bring the flag to, once each point is captured, after a bit of time (30-45 seconds to allow RED to build a quick defense) the next area opens up for BLU to get the flag to. Sounds a lot like Capture some Flags, huh? Well, no. This gamemode will run on one flag the entire time, the same flag, everywhere.
    Whats worse is that if you drop the flag its there for good.
    You read that right, the flag never goes back.
    If BLU drops it in front of the enemy spawn or in front of a bunch of sentries or something, pretty much you lost the game at that point.
    That's where the balance issue comes in.

    What will probably happen is that BLU will just bum rush the intel to whatever defense RED has and then get it stuck there in front of said spawn room/sentries and then they lose.
    How do I prevent that and make BLU more protective of the flag?
    I only have one idea.

    The idea is simple, I give them a maximum of five minutes-- not the normal 10 minute maximum, and have the timer go down ONLY when no one on BLU has the flag. What this means is as long as someone on BLU is carrying the flag the match will go on forever. This means BLU will be more defensive about where the flag goes and help them be a bit smarter about where they take the flag and about those sentry nests or whatever and they (hopefully) avoid said spots.

    This will also affect RED too. If I do that, RED will have to be a hell of a lot more aggressive than normal and push frequently to take out the flag carrier so the time goes down-- as well as defending so if the flag gets picked up again theres a defense ready in some other place to stop it.

    Essentially what this means is that BLU will have to take a shot at defense as well, defending the flag from assaults from RED and RED will have to take a shot at offense-- making it 50/50 on what both teams have to be worried about.

    50 your planning a big push to take out the flag carrier/defense and get closer to winning,
    50 your stopping the flag from getting closer to winning/making sure the flag carrier survives for as long as possible, as well as defending key areas so if things get ugly the flag can retreat and heal up.

    Would this be the best way to balance it?
    I want to make sure this gamemode turns out really good, so can you please help me figure out those issues and post your ideas or comments on the gamemode overall?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
  2. puxorb

    aa puxorb L69: Emoticon

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    Make the main exits of RED's spawns drop-downs to prevent them from just running back and forth out of spawn replenishing their health in the event that BLU drops the flag right outside the door. Then there should be a secondary or tertiary exit a bit out of the way so that in the time it takes them to go back to the resupply a BLU scout can run by and move the intel away from the door. Also, another thing you could do (and im not sure this even works) is make a trigger_push that only pushes the flag out of the area immediately after red's spawn. (set it to push entities and not push players)
     
  3. henke37

    aa henke37

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    Hmm, the idea is interesting. And the hud isn't going to have any problem with it.
     
  4. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Sounds like ADCTF with some gimmicks; might work. Although this bit:

    will be incredibly easy to exploit - all it takes is one BLU asshole to grab the flag and run as far back as possible and the map turns into TDM. Unless the server has votekick enabled, neither team can do anything about it.
     
  5. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    Yeah, look up ctf_haarp to get an idea of what Attack/Defend CTF looks like. I honestly think that the Blu team running it into the enemy spawn is very unlikely anyway. If the point is detatched from Red spawn, then BLU has no reason to go to it, and if the point is by red spawn, then Blu has to go there anyway! My guess is that you were envisioning Turbine's mess where the flag can be wasted by taking it past their spawn, but since you are making effectively an attack/defend map, your map shouldn't look like Turbine anyway.

    Having said that, don't feel you have to make it different from ctf_haarp in some way. ADCTF is extremely rare (I only know of haarp) and that map was made in the Goldrush era of extreme chokepoints and huge timers. At the time, haarp was very well received so a map with the same mechanics but more Gorge than Dustbowl could do very well.
     
  6. Coolz

    Coolz L2: Junior Member

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    Well, if the teams are smart BLU could let RED go kill the guy and then resume match? Nah, that probably won't happen. Maybe a flag detector that enables a trigger_push to push the flag back so it doesn't get that far away?
     
  7. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    No no no no no no NO! Every map that uses a flag has that potential. Don't be valve and shun the flags just because of the lowest common denominator. Make the map you want to make, not the one that is abuse-proof.
     
  8. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Except normal CTF ends on a timer despite any potential trolls, this would literally go on forever.
     
  9. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Stock CTF's timer is merely a default timer set to the server's mp_timelimit, not a round timer. Mapchange on server-time works here too.
     
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  10. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Fair enough; disregard my previous posts then