Need some opinions on a community map YT series

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Ixy, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. Ixy

    Ixy L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    70
    Positive Ratings:
    79
    Hello! My name is Ixy and I don't make maps. I'm just very, very enthusiastic about them.

    To that end, I want to try and make a regular YouTube series highlighting community TF2 maps. My goal isn't to review them so much as introduce people to them. I've asked friends what they want to see in such a series, but I think I would be remiss if I didn't ask the actual mappers what they would like to see.

    I've made a draft of a video and uploaded it here:
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWPP0zPYlD4
    (There are still things I need to correct, like audio levels, typos and the end animation). I basically kitchen sinked it, but I'm pretty sure I don't want the videos to be this long. So:

    What would you like to see in a YT video introducing TF2 players to community maps?
    What would you avoid?
    Any other thoughts (on this video or in general)?

    Any feedback and CC would be very much appreciated. I just want to do right by you guys. :)

    Thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 9
  2. The Letter Before A

    The Letter Before A Cool Idiot

    Messages:
    300
    Positive Ratings:
    119
    *applause


    can't wait to see this
     
    • Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 2
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  3. TheClaudioAmericano

    TheClaudioAmericano L1: Registered

    Messages:
    46
    Positive Ratings:
    17
    Only criticism I can give is that I feel like the video is a bit too long. 5 minutes would be more reasonable, but that's just my personal opinion.
    Otherwise I really like the idea, I hope you focus on maps that aren't as popular as they once were or maps that never got much popularity in the first place. cp_glacier is a great start, my suggestion for the next one would be cp_obscure. One of my all time favorite maps, and it unfortunately doesn't get nearly as much attention as it once did.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. sooshey

    aa sooshey :3c

    Messages:
    522
    Positive Ratings:
    418
    I would keep/include:
    - Beginning part with the stills followed by map name and info
    - a fly-through instead of running through

    and leave out:
    - the overhead views with explanations
    - gameplay

    I would try to keep the whole thing under 2 minutes, because I feel most people will be watching these for a brief showcase of the map and not an in-depth analysis.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  5. parkingturtle

    parkingturtle L1: Registered

    Messages:
    30
    Positive Ratings:
    12
    Maybe try to catch some gameplay from tf2maps.net server if you can, would be better than gameplay with bots.
    The walkthrough was a bit too long maybe. You could make an overview of point/objective area and point out the important spots and them show how it looks like ig with the gameplay.
    If someone thinks I'm saying shit correct me, but that's how I think you should do it.
     
  6. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

    Messages:
    916
    Positive Ratings:
    1,479
    I suggest doing them in a format similar to @Fantasmos's cp_alloy trailer, though in a longer format. At the end of the day most people looking for custom maps just want to get a brief overview of the gameplay spaces, and a good look at the visuals.

     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Beef Bucket

    aa Beef Bucket L41: Blessed Member

    Messages:
    337
    Positive Ratings:
    414
    I would say, if you want to go for length, go for length, but do something with that time. Talk in depth about the different elements of the map, and what works or doesn't about each.
    If you want to showcase gameplay that's cool, but keep it focused on the map. Comment on how it affects the decisions you make. Most importantly, show more than just scout footage. Where are the best engineer nests? Where are the sniper sightlines, and how are they countered?

    Also, for Glacier specifically, for the overview on 0:20 you should mention that it is Gravel Pit style, as 'three control points' usually implies three linear points like Mountain Lab

    PS: the intro graphic, and use of the UI font and ingame imagery suggests you are going for an 'officially hosted by the TF2 Wiki' feel, but the music does not fit that theme at all. I would suggest, if not pieces of the official soundtrack, something that sounds similar to it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  8. Ixy

    Ixy L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    70
    Positive Ratings:
    79
    Thanks for all your comments so far. I really appreciate it (if anyone has anything more to say, please keep it coming).

    I completely agree this is too long and slow as is. As I mentioned, it's a draft, and I prefer to be subtractive rather than additive when I revise. I just thought I'd throw it all out there and see how people reacted to each bit. My goal is around 2:30 - 5:00 running time.

    And yeah, I'm not sold on the "run-through" either. It was sort of a way to avoid fly-throughs, which I'm on the fence about. I'm not against them, but I feel a portion of map creators already do this, plus, personally, I don't get a lot out of them. They feel "empty" to me. But maybe I'm just weird like that? What do you guys think: fly-throughs or no?

    The plan is to represent a wide array of beta/rc cp, koth, ctf and pl maps. Thing is, I've only been playing TF2 for about a year, so I'm not sure which maps have, historically, been popular, and beyond some obvious examples, I have no idea how old some of these maps are. But I'd like to represent both young and old, to the best of my ability.

    I have seen that clip, and drooled enviously over it because it looks so awesome. Thing is, I feel like it succeeds at showing the visuals, but maybe not so much the gameplay spaces? But maybe that's just me being distracted by how good the video itself looks.

    1) I completely agree with you re: discussing game play elements. Unfortunately, I don't feel qualified to do that. I'm way too forgiving of gameplay mechanics to be adequately critical of them, and I'm really not that knowledgeable of a player. Plus, I would have to talk, and while I realize this would solve a lot of problems, I kind of want to avoid it.

    2) I was going to mention the map is Gravel Pit style, but then I felt that Gravel Pit is not exactly a well-liked map, and I didn't want people to consider Glacier with that bias.

    3) I wasn't trying to go for anything official on the intro card. Just a spin on "Meet the..." with maps instead of characters.


    Apologies for the length of response. I am not on a first-name basis with brevity. But I like thoughtful discussion and I know you all are good at that here.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. theatreTECHIE

    aa theatreTECHIE Yet another Techie for the net...

    Messages:
    396
    Positive Ratings:
    417
    What you could do is have a few quick screens of each point, followed by 10 to 20 seconds of gameplay around that point, ending with the point being captured. You could even possibly highlight the area that you are just about to look at on the overview as a sort of introduction to that area.
    I would also suggest showing the map name, author and any details about the map along the bottom of the screen while showing bits of the map. This could help cut down the length of videos while having the opportunity to show people more of the map, since looking at the blackboard is a bit boring, as there isn't much else to look at.
    I would also have a look at the 72hr Contest #5 Showcase video, as this shows how much of a map you can see in a short time:

    It's nice to see another person doing this, as these videos are nice to watch.
     
  10. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

    Messages:
    1,035
    Positive Ratings:
    2,036
    I would personally say that while showing off the gameplay is a great benefit to the videos, doing so with bots will be an issue on a lot of maps as bot ai can only handle certain gamemodes and certain kinds of geometry. Anything with moving elements and opening doors will confuse bots greatly.

    Maybe see if you can organise a game on the map and then record the demo later so it doesn't all need to be first-person.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1