MVM How?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by TMB, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Hi, im making a prefab for MVM what i want to iclude in this:
    http://tf2maps.net/downloads/all-gamemodes.1575/

    But i dont know how to make it... i have mvm_example in vmf but i dont know how make waves and that things... btw, i want to know how to make the 2 types of MVM...
     
  2. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    MVM is very complicated. Everything in mvm_example is needed for it, so you really need to include the whole thing.
     
  3. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    All the info about waves is in .pop files though, not in vmf/bsp.
     
  4. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Ok, let me explain, i did a pop file about mvm_example but doesnt work... so i need good intrcsions and btw leswordfish, you made a MVM so you must know how to do it...
     
  5. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    It's been a long time since I worked on that mvm map. What happened with the pop file? How did it not work?
     
  6. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Well, just dont work, i go to map, i said change mission to my pop and then nothing happens....
     
  7. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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  8. Vel0city

    aa Vel0city func_fish

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    I'll poke @UKCS-Alias he knows a lot about MvM related stuff, including the missions.
     
  9. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Here ill let you the console:

    Code:
    [TF Workshop] Got 15 subscribed maps, 15 new
    maxplayers set to 24
    Steam config directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Team Fortress 2\platform\config
    CClientSteamContext logged on = 1
    Cleaning up unneeded replay block data...
    Replay cleanup done.
    Loading default settings for high sensitivity
    Connection to game coordinator established.
    CTFGCClientSystem::PostInitGC
    CTFGCClientSystem - adding listener
    Hiding LobbyContainerFrameHiding LobbyContainerFrameHiding LobbyContainerFrameCan't use cheat cvar fog_start in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
    Can't use cheat cvar fog_end in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
    Can't use cheat cvar fog_startskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
    Can't use cheat cvar fog_endskybox in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
    Can't use cheat cvar r_farz in multiplayer, unless the server has sv_cheats set to 1.
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/mvm_meltdown_rc1_4.ugc546248385 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/ctf_14bit_72_a6b.ugc519076728 ]
    [TF Workshop] Invalid character N in map name
    [TF Workshop] Invalid workshop map name 672488532 [ koth_Nakum.bsp ]
    [TF Workshop] Failed to make filename for tracked map, map will not be usuable [ baseName: koth_Nakum.bsp ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/pl_snowycoast_b4.ugc469072819 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/ctf_urbanbrook.ugc546498227 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/pl_effigy_b7.ugc543841027 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/sd_hunted.ugc454326638 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/cp_stag.ugc528121891 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/mvm_oilrig.ugc463499205 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/sd_push_b1.ugc455479345 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/pl_corrode_rc2.ugc546577989 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/ctf_hotspring.ugc475721311 ]
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/cp_tidal_v4.ugc570869131 ]
    [TF Workshop] Error fetching updated information for map id 568587493
    [TF Workshop] Info lookup failed for workshop file 568587493 ( EResult 1 )
    [TF Workshop] Got updated information for map [ workshop/jump_dahl_fixed.ugc505870123 ]
    Applying new item schema, version 9B123B70
    **WARNING** Item schema mismatch after update!
    GC told us to expect 9B123B70, we got 8B53863F
    Applied updated item schema from GC. 3347980 bytes, version 9B123B70.
    ] map mvm_example
    Network: IP 192.168.0.2, mode MP, dedicated No, ports 27015 SV / 27005 CL
    Using map cycle file 'cfg/mapcycle_default.txt'.  ('cfg/mapcycle.txt' was not found.)
    Set motd from file 'cfg/motd_default.txt'.  ('cfg/motd.txt' was not found.)
    Set motd_text from file 'cfg/motd_text_default.txt'.  ('cfg/motd_text.txt' was not found.)
    'listenserver.cfg' not present; not executing.
    'mvm_example.cfg' not present; not executing.
    Sending request to exit matchmaking system [ abandon = 0 ]
    You must set maxplayers to 32 to host Mann vs. Machine
    
    Team Fortress
    Map: mvm_example
    Players: 1 / 24
    Build: 3538190
    Server Number: 1
    
    The server is using sv_pure 0.  (Enforcing consistency for select files only)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01rt_replacement)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01bk_replacement)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01lf_replacement)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01ft_replacement)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01up_replacement)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01rt)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01bk)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01lf)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01ft)
    Requesting texture value from var "$basetexture" which is not a texture value (material: skybox/sky_badlands_01up)
    Unable to initialize DirectSoundCapture. You won't be able to speak to other players.TMB se ha conectado
    Compact freed 585728 bytes
    Using joystick 'Xbox360 controller' configuration
    JOY_AXIS_X:  mapped to Side (absolute)
    JOY_AXIS_Y:  mapped to Forward (absolute)
    JOY_AXIS_Z:  unmapped
    JOY_AXIS_R:  mapped to Look (absolute)
    JOY_AXIS_U:  mapped to Turn (absolute)
    JOY_AXIS_V:  unmapped
    Advanced Joystick settings initialized
    Redownloading all lightmaps
    Connection to game coordinator established.
    tf_server_identity_account_id not set; not logging into registered account
    Received 3347980 bytes item schema version 9B123B70 direct data; update is queued.
    No Nav Mesh CPopulationManager::Initialize for scripts/population/mvm_example_test.popCan't compute incursion distances from the Red spawn room(s). Bots will perform poorly. This is caused by either a missing func_respawnroom, or missing info_player_teamspawn entities within the func_respawnroom.
    Can't compute incursion distances from the Blue spawn room(s). Bots will perform poorly. This is caused by either a missing func_respawnroom, or missing info_player_teamspawn entities within the func_respawnroom.
    Can't find blue spawn room nav areas. No legal bomb drop areas are markedNo nav area for bomb delivery zone.Item Whitelist file 'item_whitelist.txt' could not be found. All items will be allowed.
    NextBot tickrate changed from 0 (0.000ms) to 7 (0.105ms)
    'scout.cfg' not present; not executing.
    No caption found for 'scout.taunts12'
    No caption found for 'scout.goodjob03'
    No caption found for 'scout.specialcompleted03'
    No caption found for 'scout.battlecry05'
    SoundEmitter:  removing map sound overrides [5458 to remove, 1641 to restore]
    Dropped (21)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (20)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (19)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (18)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (17)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (16)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (15)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (14)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (13)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (12)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (11)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (10)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (9)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (8)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (7)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (6)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (5)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (4)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (3)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (2)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped (1)TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped TFBot from server (Server shutting down)
    Dropped TMB from server (Server shutting down)
    
    If you want, here ill let you the vmf and the pop.
     
  10. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Looks as if you haven't generated the .nav for the map, which is a whole tutorial in itself. Look on the Valve Developer Community for "nav_generate".

    If you're putting together prefabs for each mode, I would suggest including the contents of the example vmf, plus an entity with links to tutorials on the mode, so players can put it together themselves - you don't need to include the whole track in your payload prefab, right? The same logic applies here.
     
  11. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Ok, i create a server, i put my map and then i write in Console nav_generate, now works but im still have 2 questions...
    1. The nav thing is a file? If it is where i can find it and how i make people can play the map with my wave?
    2. I need someone explain me the other mvm type (mannhatan)
     
  12. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    I think valve should have to do 1 key feature when testing mvm, and that is that instead of 'Wave 0' it states 'Nav file missing' or 'Nav file error', at least it could hint people. Now its just guessing what went wrong. And more ideal show 'Cant find hatch', 'Cant find func_respawnroom' etc.

    Edit 1:
    1. Next to the .bsp file you can find the .nav
    2. Before even starting on mannhattan get your map to work without control points. Control points make an mvm map significantly harder to make.

    Edit 2:
    And the reason i state to wait for making it is because its easier to add in the control point system when you know the map at least works. For control points you have to throw in some extra things and sometimes even change the entire system (if this is the case you started the wrong way for entity work - in a good situation this shouldnt be the case) the map works.

    I cant even decently write a guide for it as its a 'built to suit the map' case. Only when you understand (or have the skills to figure out) the entity work in mannhattan should you even try to make one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  13. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    The .nav file is in the same folder as the .bsp. You need to share them both together.

    As for the other type of MVM, Alias can help better than I can.
     
  14. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun too

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    Off topic, but I'd love a Source Map Debugging Tool, something that gives on-screen alerts based on happenings in the console.

    Best of luck with resolving your issues, TMB, I'm clueless about MvM.
     
  15. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Ok, then i just need:
    1. What mvm_example have
    2. The pop file that i get it here: http://mvm.tf/
    3. I compile the map, and then type in Console nav_generate
    4. Pack the map

    And then everybody can play my map, with my waves, right?
     
  16. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Yes
    Yes.

    There are a few more stages to building a navmesh than that - mvm_example is very simple so it all works, but in a real map you'll get lots of little problems that need fixing. Navmeshes are complicated though - the most complicated technical thing i've found in TF2! - so you'll have to find a tutorial for them.

    Yes. However, don't pack the .nav or .pop files into the bsp - you'll need to include them in a .zip file and include some instructions on where to put them.

    Yes. Best of luck!
     
  17. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Emmm, ok, everything cool except the 3 anwser....
     
  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    Yeah, sorry. I don't really understand them myself.
     
  19. Hyperion

    aa Hyperion L16: Grid Member

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    You won't get optimal navigation info for bots unless you use nav hints in the map, such as bot_hint_sniper_bot and func_nav_avoid. And even that is only a scratch on the surface.

    If you are making a own wave for official or another fully working map, then you don't have to care about other things than nav_generate. But if you make map yourself, don't try to play with navigation unless your map is fully playable from other parts
     
  20. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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    For a beginner its the easiest to take a traditional layout. 2 main paths, some flanks. The main paths need a nav avoid to force the bomber to take the other path. the flanks only will need that when they are part of the pathing system (similar to how decoy has 3 paths, coaltown has 4 and mannworks has 2).
    For flanks the prefer paths are used as they can be used on the tags and are much easier to handle that way.
    MvM example does cover this.

    For any advanced mode decompiled maps from valve will be your primary source of information. So on that understanding the mvm logic is vital. Some people can instantly make such map. But many cant and will just remain stuck to traditional layouts. And in mvm, dont think 'my map needs special features', there are a few excelent maps still built on the traditional way: underground, powerplant, isolation, yucatan, meltdown.
    Anything special you add to the map is going to make mission making alot harder as these features can provide balance problems on their own. As mannhattan proved because past point 2 most teams give up since after that point defending actualy becomes harder. And even then, if you lost the 2nd point its generaly bad enough anyway so it makes sense to leave.
    Where for rottenburg this issue isnt there. Its a traditional layout style map. It has the barricade twist, but the overal map is still a very standard one.