1. Hey there Guest,

    The game servers have moved to semi-dedicated hardware and IPs have changed. Please see front page server widget for up-to-date game server information.

CTF Middle Of The Ocean

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Wael, May 10, 2012.

  1. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    Raygun

    Small 10-14 player CTF map set on a structure in the middle of the ocean at sundown.

    This is my first TF2 map so mostly it's been a learning experience, but I'm fairly happy with the result. Anyway feedback is very appreciated so don't hold back any criticism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  2. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

    Messages:
    871
    Positive Ratings:
    1,010
    Some better screenshots would be nice, preferably an overhead that shows the whole map.
     
  3. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    Alright, sorry about the crappy screenshots. Also an overhead shot wouldn't work because of fog.
     
  4. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,035
    Positive Ratings:
    4,499
    Type fog_override 1 and fog_enable 0 in console to disable fog.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,309
    Looks really good for a first map, reminds me of vilepickle's early stuff- what this means is that you're going a little overboard with the trim in your interiors. You're also using primarily interior materials for your exteriors. On an architectural note, such steep roofs are typically reserved for alpine environments, to help mitigate snow. Not a big issue, but you should at least change up the material on the roofs to something TF2 uses more often for roofing.
    Presumably your water is insta-death (sorry, at work, can't test) Just know that this is a hugely frustrating feature to have in anything but miniscule amounts.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  6. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    First TF2 map also first map in I think 2 years, been making maps for UT99/UT3 for a while now.
    I'll tone it down a little, something's been bugging me about the way the map looks and that's probably it.
    I'm not too familiar with TF2 textures yet, I'll try to find something more appropriate.
    Again I'll find something more appropriate.
    Yes, the water is insta-death.
    I should mention that the layout is largely based on an older map so it wasn't built for TF2 gameplay specifically in mind so if anyone has any layout change suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
    Anyway thanks for the thoughtful response, it is very much appreciated.
     
  7. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,591
    Positive Ratings:
    4,706
    Two things, one layout-wise and one detail-wise:
    [​IMG]
    While this sightline won't for sure be a problem, I can see it being one. I drew in some walls, which would eliminate the sightline but still give snipers in those positions something to shoot. I'm no expert, so take this advice with a grain of salt.
    [​IMG]
    Crossbars like these look odd when they aren't made of wood, and architecturally aren't spytech-ish. I would suggest removing them.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    First of all thanks for the feedback.
    Funny you should mention that because originally the middle part of the upper bridged was raised so snipers couldn't see all the way across but that severely limited what a sniper could do to the point where I felt they were almost useless, so I lowered the bridge. Anyway I'll test it out with the proposed walls to see if that works.
    That won't be a problem, the more I looked at the interior the more unhappy I was with it so I've decided to redo most of it.
    Anyway assuming I can keep up the pace I should have another beta ready within a week.
     
  9. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    This is what I've got so far, I still need to do another detail pass and tweak some things but this what it's gonna look like.
    Also the environment ambient lighting shadows are irking me so I'm just gonna replace ambient lighting with a bunch of point lights or spotlights.
    P.S.Is there a way to make the light prop match the light color without having to alter the texture?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    What do you think?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  10. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    5,464
    [​IMG]

    Something about that red lighting seems unsettling.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    I could try reducing their radius so they cast less ominous shadows, or I could try making it a little more orange, how's that sound?
     
  12. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,035
    Positive Ratings:
    4,499
  13. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,377
    *crosses arms, raises eyebrow* What do you think?

    This is gorgeous, but I suspect you have the lightmap resolution cranked up absurdly high. That makes the filesize get really big really fast, so be careful.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    Alrighty then, I'll give that a shot.
    Shit man, I don't know. I thought maybe I could turn off the emissive map on the material or at least dial it down, guess I'll just have to read up on how that stuff works in Hammer.
    Thanks.
    I have the lightmap up to 4 where needed, on my last compile the file was at 18mb, so far it seems to be under control.
     
  15. xzzy

    aa xzzy

    Messages:
    815
    Positive Ratings:
    500
    18mb for a map using no custom assets is actually quite large.

    The default lightmap scale is 16, and every time you divide the scale by 2, the memory usage for that surface doubles.

    There's probably a reasonable argument to be made that a scale of 4 is "too sharp" for TF2 as well. The game's aesthetic has always been about the suggestion of detail.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    818
    Positive Ratings:
    244
    Unfortunately source doesn't offer the same flexibility as unreal in terms of textures. in later versions of source (l4d/AS) you can get textures on models where you can apply a colour that affects only certain (predefined) areas of a model (e.g. the painted markings on the metal doors in alien swarm), but in the OrangeBox/TF2 version, you'll need to override/write the texture with a custom one that you then pak into the map bsp (by using a tool such as pakrat)

    i'm seriously dubious about you're being able to create a nicely distributed lighting by using point/spot lighting to fake the ambience. I'd suggest sticking with the sky lighting entity provided and tweaking it to get it the way you want
    - i know this is a common trick used in unreal, but due to the way source handles lighting you'll be added significantly to your compile time, and ending up with sub-standard results.



    in regards to the comments about the lightmap grid size. yes you DO sometimes need to make it be size 4 for a TF2 map. remember that whilst details are not as sharp in tf2 textures, the lightmap grids are ... griddy - as in if you shine a light_spot against a wall with a high lightmap grid size instead of a nice cone shape you get a visible stepped effect. this is particularly bad on surfaces like the metal door texture often used on garage-like doors in tf2


    i'd suggest you change the scaling on your water. it looks like it might be a little bit too large in those images
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Wael

    Wael L1: Registered

    Messages:
    16
    Positive Ratings:
    1
    I'll fiddle around lightmap scale and try to find a nice middle ground.

    Alright, I'll look into it.
    Actually the idea came to me to use 4 light environment entities with high sun spread angles to replace the ambient lighting, which is another trick used in unreal. But I'm guessing there's a reason people don't do it hammer which I am about to find out for myself

    Ok, will do.
     
  18. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    818
    Positive Ratings:
    244
    I could be wrong but i believe that only one light_environment gets used (i believe it'll be the 1st one placed, i.e. the one with the lower entID)
    - I believe this is wholly due to the fact that only one is expected, and vrad does not look for others once the 1st one is found.

    I was going to suggest using light_directional, but it turns out that it's not available in tf2 :-/


    what is actually the issue you're having with the shadows? is it that one base is well lit whilst the other is in shadow?
    one fix for this would be to use a high angled (midday-esque) sun to give both bases the same/similar lighting.
    another fix is to get creative with your non-gameplay-affecting asthetics (i.e. having lights that are switched on in one base but off in another, or being non-symmetrical with lightbulbs/flouresent-light props.
    -maybe have a boat sitting off the side of the shadowed base with a spotlight shining towards it?

    one thing to remember in tf2 is that your geometry does not have to be perfectly mirrored for non-gameplay areas. and even in gameplay areas you can usually get away with some variation of props with similar collision meshes (and/or making clever use of playerclip textured brushes)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  19. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,377
    For the record, those metal doors are vertex-lit dynamic props, is why they look so bad. Valve at least had the good sense to break their solid slats up into additional polys specifically for this purpose, but it's still what it is.
     
  20. Ezekel

    Ezekel L11: Posh Member

    Messages:
    818
    Positive Ratings:
    244
    i actually mean the metal texture that is usually used on non-functional doorways (like the ones near cp3 on pl_moonlit)