https://tf2maps.net/downloads/zythe_mc12.11052/ i feel sick
Microcontest #12: Hit the Limits
- Thread starter 14bit
- Start date
A strong second showing from our crew of monthly microcontest mappers! This time we got 21 maps spanning 8 modes, including the first* KotH map of the microcontest season and two with extra underscores in their file names for some reason. Overall positive thoughts on most of the maps this time around, although a lot of people seemed to play it safe while working with the height. Read on for my thoughts on all the maps!
*there was a map with the KotH prefix in MC#11, but it had three points and played like Domination
And as usual for Season 2, here's the mode breakdown:
A/D 8
Arena 3
PD 2
KotH 1
PL 3
SD 2
PASS 1
PLR 1
Once more, thanks for playing along as either a mapper, tester, or observer! We had a great turnout, and I'll be seeing you all again next month for another microcontest. See you then, and best of luck on your April Fools maps if you're making one for the gameday!
*there was a map with the KotH prefix in MC#11, but it had three points and played like Domination
Interesting use of small height changes around the map! Most of the areas flow pretty well, and I enjoyed my time playing on it. Your use of the upper limit is quite interesting; having the high point be on the opposite side of final from Red's spawn is unique and it seemed to play alright. I'm surprised Red can lose second so easily with that height, you might want to try and make it just a little harder for Blu to reach it. It's a very neat start to a map, and I'm fascinated by your idea to build one stage for each microcontest.
This was the more interesting of the two SD maps we got, but not really for good reasons. Basically everyone was confused; it's not clear that it's SD at the start. The routing is hard to understand, and I'm not sure what the weird side area between the bases (on the opposite side of the flag from the drop site) is for. Pulling that in and making it interact with the flag more would probably help. The flag isn't set up as an SD flag, which didn't help either. Without setting it up for SD, it becomes neutral the moment it's dropped and doesn't have a countdown to respawning, meaning that the capture crits allow the team that just capped to just grab the next flag without a fight. The height is used decently, though the flag carrier is pretty much safe the moment they take the drop since nobody wants to follow someone into the maze of routes below.
I'm happy with mine, it does almost exactly what I was hoping for. Some people seem ideologically opposed to the high route, which I don't know how to feel about. I didn't really build it as a place to hold but it seems that's what most people thought it was for. It's more of a sneaky over-the-top route to flank the other team; usually that type of thing is a tunnel, so I was trying to invert that idea by making it really high up. Most of the main fights happened inside the main building like I hoped, with teams attempting to flank over the top, but it seems the most vocal testers didn't like that kind of layout. I feel like this could work if the rest of the cliff area was better; those shacks with health didn't really do much for the layout in the end, so that's what I'd work on first to see if I could get it to play better without significantly reworking the upper route.
Overall I like this more than the last one, maybe? Most of the server complained that it felt really similar to the last one, and I will agree it feels sort of the same. That might be the point though? The particles and sounds are a nice touch, but other than a different color it feels the same as the last. It feels like you were trying to play into the height as a motif, trying to build the geometry to communicate a sense that this place is oppressively tall. Unfortunately I don't think it works, since there's not really any places where you can see the scale of the space. Everyone's focusing on the other players and not the space, so you'll have to find ways to get people to notice the space. Bottomless pits at edges, glass floor looking into the abyss, or even some more steep slopes leading up through doorways like with the tunnels would help people to see the scale on display. Other than the visuals it's not particularly interesting arena map. Because of the style of brushwork, there's not really multi-layered structures or microcover, and that is really felt in a mode where you need to be able to outmaneuver enemies in order to survive. This one felt like you were putting style over substance, but the style couldn't make up for it. I hope to see if you do more of these, they're really interesting!
Neat idea, but the elevator is a nightmare; there's a reason elevators didn't make the transition from TFC to TF2. It also feels more like an SD map than one of the actual SD maps that was submitted! The side area doesn't matter, since the caps are the main attraction and never close or move. The fun of PD is allowing points to build up and then fighting over where you need to drop them, but here it was just a fight against the engineers that managed to get set up at the top. I don't think nobuild is a solution here; you need to make larger changes. My immediate first thought is to add a second capture zone where the far rock is on the opposite end from the rocket. Having two points that alternate would fix the camping issue and pull the rest of the map into play. having the spawns so big is also odd, I'd add another exit to the small spawn room and make the rest of the building open for both teams to rotate through.
I've never seen PD work well with a static, always open point, and this just makes me believe it never will more than ever. It just feels like KotH, but less interesting because there's no push and pull; you just sit on the point and kill people to win. The teleport-powered spawn splits teams up to much leading to chaos, and there's no real defined routes or combat spaces. It's just a box full of platforms. Someone mentioned that it felt like Splatoon, and I'm inclined to agree. Unfortunately, Splatoon's map design is based around gaining and losing territory via paint, meaning it's good to let players go everywhere. That doesn't work very well in TF2 I'm afraid. The use of the powerups as teleporters and jump pads confused almost everyone; please just use the established design language or make up something new. "Heath regen powerup" just doesn't scream "teleporter" to me.
Pretty good joke map, uses the height well! The heavy at the end is a nice touch. I'm unsure how to feel about players getting to the middle early; it's nice to give options, but it feels unintentional and was a bit annoying. I've not got much to say; it's a good joke executed well. I'm not sure what else you could really do to improve this other than going full Chandlands and randomizing a bunch of stuff.
There's a really neat map somewhere in this idea, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. Red having a forward spawn just kind of sucks? It's really hard to break through since they're so close, and once A is capped they're thrown into an entirely new area with no time to prepare. I'm unsure how to approach fixing it though. Jump pads? Having spawn off to the side with a shortcut up to the top that closes after A is capped? Red's defenses at A are hard to break, but fun. With better spawn times for both teams and something different about Red's forward spawn, this would be very cool. I like the use of the height! Very solid base, I hope this gets continued!
The ramp to the high ground blends in for Blu because of the shadows. The point is terrifying and cramped, making it hard to both cap and contest. I like the areas outside of spawn though, something about them feels nice. The use of height is kind of neat, but it's really hard to contest to point when there's an engineer at the top. Pulling it in to be a more prominent part of the gameplay might help, since at the moment it is more important to hold than it both looks and feels. There's so many corners you need to navigate to reach mid; the fastest route (From Red spawn) seems to be left exit, left into building, right turn, left out of building around a block, right around the block, left though doorway, right, then up the ramp to the point. That's left, left, right, left, right, left, right, up, just to get to the point, which doesn't feel good to navigate. The side routes are fine, but the middle of each team's side is a bit of a mess in my eyes.
Solid PL map! The height is definitely there, but I think you were working against it more than with it for point B. B feels surprisingly flat on a micro-level compared to the macro-level height differences across the map as a whole. Lowering all of B a bit to allow for more variation (or even just breaking the limits now that the contest is over) would help a lot. Even just some cover would be nice. The dips and turns going into final are really fun, but final itself isn't anything to write home about. There's some really solid bits here (all of A, B up until the point area, the drops and turns into final) and I'd love to see another version with the rest worked on a bit!
I don't like Doomsday, or really SD as a mode, but this is just kind of Doomsday but less interesting. The number of routes and how they are laid out seem to be almost identical to Doomsday, though Doomsday has a few more routes from mid to the Austrailium. The Austrailium drop site here is pretty dull; there's not really anywhere to set up in anticipation for the Austrailium to reset like on Doomsday. I feel like the height requirements could have been used a bit more creatively as well; the lowest point isn't really in play much, and the highest point doesn't feel particularly high as a result. The spawns also aren't great; you made them cover all of the outside areas up to the spawn gate, meaning that engineers can't build teleporters without great difficulty. You're a very talented mapper, so it's just a bit disappointing to me to see something so close to another map. It plays alright, though.
I really like this, it's neat! Quite well made, too; the style of your brushwork is very nice to look at and play in. As a proof-of-concept for the mode it works very well; I was worried about the crits but they didn't seem to be a huge issue. I'd still probably remove them. The consistent respawn timer on the ball worked fine, I'll probably revert that change I made for [REDACTED] so it's consistently 8 seconds instead of 1 when picked up by Red. Since it's new it's hard to judge balance, but it seemed to be fine. Final was probably a bit too easy, and the round timer might need to be shorter for how fast it plays. I think not requiring people to look up as sharply to throw in would be a good move? So just making the areas in front of the goals a bit larger. Great work, I'm excited for the future of A/D PASS Time!
The capture points are very small, I'd make them bigger. Plays alright; nothing super unique but no glaring flaws either, which is pretty impressive for a microcontest entry! I like the brushwork shelves, they stand out in my mind for some reason. The height in Red's spawn is fun, but isn't integrated into gameplay super well. The points cap rather fast, too, which makes it hard for Red to set up once they need to fall back. B is my least favorite, but I'm not sure if I can pin point why. It's just kind of uninteresting to both push and/or hold? Final is kind of neat and makes sort of interesting use of the height, but attackers don't really feel it since it's all just "above the point" and they don't really see the layers. It's not a bad thing, just though I'd note it since it's interesting that playing the same point as both Red and Blu feels so wildly different here.
This got vote skipped in the first round, since Blu wasn't having fun with a choke. As a result I saw very little of the map, but I'll do my best to give feedback! The choke at B is what killed it for everyone; Blu has to go on quite a hike around the area to reach the cart, all while Red is holding high ground above them. There really needs to be another way up for Blu; maybe a staircase in the building across the bridge from B? There's a general lack of cover across the map. Adding a few fences, walls, crates, and rocks around would really help keep things interesting, and allows for more interesting moment-to-moment combat.
That fire escape is the most hidden route I've seen in a long time. Congrats? Joking aside, the height isn't used well; the map ends up being just too compact to work. It's probably the best attempts I've seen at a tower-based vertical A/D map in many, many years, but still not great. Red probably needs to spawn farther back, and Blu needs a bit more help breaking into final with wider routes, more routes, or better routes. Final is just a killbox full of sentries right now, so you're going to have to figure out how to stop that if you keep working on this. It looks rather nice; I really like furniture even if it is floating.
I love the use of height in this one! A is particularly interesting and unique; I don't think I've really seen anything like it before. It looks super Red-sided, but always fell pretty quickly which I think is fascinating. I think the far right spawn exit (for Blu, from their perspective) is to blame, so I'd be interested in seeing how it plays without that exit. The ring at final is fun, if inconsistent. There's a few nasty nooks that Red can set up in at final, but the area is well-constructed and fun. Blu's routes to final aren't great though; lots of small spiral staircases. Both of the points themselves are some of the most unique I've played in years, and I hope this sees at least another version. I like the badger!
I really like this layout, though I can't put my finger on why. I think it might be the way the routes through the buildings are laid out? First is a bit cramped on the point itself, but the area over all feels good. Final is neat, with it being quite wide; I don't think I've played much else like it. Reminds me a bit of Granary, maybe? It's pretty fun overall, it's just a bit hard for Blu to push final, but is satisfying when they do. Might be an issue with first being too easy then, and having to run the clock down after that that makes it feel hard.
Too small, too chaotic. The layout doesn't flow well at all, and doesn't really seem to understand how PLR functions as a mode. Idolon once told me there's generally two approaches to PLR design; "lateral" maps where the carts meander and twist and turn around, covering and exploring a space, and "linear" maps where the carts are arranged head-to-head and you're pushing towards the other team. Your map here is trying to lean into the lateral camp, but isn't doing terribly well. The carts don't explore; they just get pulled back into your own base for a free trip to the end of the track without passing though any chokes. Guava Gulf stage 3 does this a little bit, where you pull the cart back towards your base at the start, but then after the carts enter a tug-of war and head for the enemy base. At the moment, this just feels like half a track, since there's no second part after you bring it to your own base. Flipping the tracks may help, but it's still very, very short for a stand-alone PLR. It's closer in size to a single stage of a multistage map. The height isn't used super well, I almost didn't even notice it. In fact, I didn't even notice the drop into the water from the highest point until writing this feedback hours later while flying around in spectator. It's not clearly communicated at at all, It just looks like it's going to be a flat platform up there from the main spaces in the map. Maybe add a sign?
I sort of like this? It is a bit too open though. The height is used well. There's two main issues: A and B feel close together, and final just kind of isn't fun to attack. I don't think A and B are actually too close, they just feel that way since it's too open. Give B some more cover and some more time for Red to set up and it might actually work. For final, giving Blu a forward spawn or shortcut might help, or maybe give the point some more separation from Red's spawn, or even just crank up the spawn times for Red on final. Maybe all three? At the moment it's a really long hike, and Red can lock it down too easily.
Final is really interesting, but I'm not sure if it's good? It's too dark to tell, but the sort of fight along the length of the track between Red and Blu is cool. The opening is impossible to hold as Red. Please give them a forward spawn and some additional cover so they have a chance at even just stalling the cart for a bit. It takes a Red heavy around 40 seconds to reach the cart from their spawn during setup time; that's a bit excessive. The lift is neat, works better than I expected. I feel like I'd need to play this map more to really get a feel for the rest, since everything else just kind of blended together.
You already know the major issues like the missing resupply lockers and the wonky doors on Red's spawn during C, so I'll try to focus on other things. The geometry is neat, and I like how you didn't put Blu's spawn between A and B. It allows for some more interesting spaces and less walking time for Blu compared to other Gravelpit-style maps. Very clever! I like final conceptually, but it never really played well in the tests since Red was always spawn camped and/or locked in spawn. There's some routing issues and the points are hard to attack, but the height is used well. While players seemed to have trouble with both A and B, I think A might actually be fine for the moment? I think the platform at the back is neat.
And as usual for Season 2, here's the mode breakdown:
A/D 8
Arena 3
PD 2
KotH 1
PL 3
SD 2
PASS 1
PLR 1
Once more, thanks for playing along as either a mapper, tester, or observer! We had a great turnout, and I'll be seeing you all again next month for another microcontest. See you then, and best of luck on your April Fools maps if you're making one for the gameday!
