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Medieval Mode Recommendations

Discussion in 'Request Area' started by Scampi, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Scampi

    Scampi L4: Comfortable Member

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    Greetings!
    I'm working on a medieval mode payload map for my payload contest entry, and I'd like to take a serious, wounding, stab at fixing as many medieval issues as I can. I understand that this gamemode will always suck compared to normal tf2, but that's not the point. This is an experiment to see how far I can take the gamemode. I'd like to try every trick in the book at making it work.

    I've already identified a number of problems the gamemode suffers from, but this is just from my perspective and it may by lacking. If you guys could list as many problems with the gamemode as you could think of, it would be much appreciated. Even if these are problems with degroot keep and other medieval maps, include them anyway.

    Here are a few problems I've identified:
    - Control points turn into moshpits where people just swing blindly and hope for a crit
    - Random crits end fights even faster than normal tf2
    - Demoknight is usually the best class to play, and wide open maps with trimping options enable him further
    - Engineer is completely pointless
    - Pyro is mostly useless
    - Control points often lack cover from arrow and needlefire

    Any other issues and recommendations? I'm all ears.
     
  2. G.bo

    G.bo L4: Comfortable Member

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    First of, I'm a huge fan of Medieval Mode. It's a cool theme itself, and the gamemode fits it quite well. That being said, I do have one way to solve a couple of the big issues around the mode.

    Essentially, I wanted to create a custom weapon ban list specifically in the map itself. I knew it was possible thanks to a joke map that was submitted long ago where you could only equip the Half Zatochi and the conch (other banners may have been allowed, but I can't recall.) Knowing this, I asked a while back if it was possible in order to solve one of my biggest issues with Medieval Mode. If somebody else can remember what the logic/entity is called, please leave it here.

    Anyways, here's some of the weapons that (I feel) change the gamemode for the better.

    1) The Jarate
    I honestly still have no idea why this isn't allowed in Medieval. I mean, yes it does regenerate quickly and it makes all players take 35% more damage, but it's still just a jar of pee. Plus, Eureka Effect lets you teleport, and that's not even invented yet for real! Speaking of Engineer...

    2) The Short Circuit
    I know this weapon is not Medieval in the slightest, but Engineer can already teleport and have a robotic arm in this era, so I don't think consistency is an issue. Though the big laser ball might be pretty broken since it drags players and deals damage, it would definitely fix the issue with Engineer having no secondaries or primaries. Plus, the other two secondaries aren't great for Medieval.

    3) The Gas Passer
    Though Pyro is a bit more varied in his melees, the Gas Passer was practically designed for Medieval (kind of). It has a long charge time that can be charged through damage of any sort (in this case melee), and it can light enemies on fire when they're damaged. The only thing that makes this weapon almost completely pointless is Mad Milk, Jarate, and the little health packs that are dropped.

    Those are the only weapons I can think could be added without being too unreasonable. Now for other advice I can give.
    • While combat may fall back to people sitting on the payload and swinging their melee, an old map called (if I'm remembering correctly) Morrigan Alley had it where the payload did not give regen, giving less incentive to sit on the cart and instead get full health before continuing to push.
    • Random crits probably will be turned off during testing.
    • Demoknight is the most powerful class in Medieval, and there's not a whole lot that can be done about it. Since most of his largest enemies aren't really included in this mode (sentries, miniguns, guns), you just have to make playing Demo require more skill. By making Trimps more difficult and play spaces more complex, you can make certain methods of attack require better timing and positioning. (ex. Having the payload go through a trench)
    • The payload lacking cover just requires good planning. [I'll go over this later when I have time.]
    I'd write more, but I have class now. I wish you good luck!
     
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  3. Narpas

    aa Narpas Takes way to long to make and update maps

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    There's one medieval payload map that's been tested on the servers a few times that people seemed to love; I forget what it's called, but you might want to look into it to see what it did that people loved so much about it
     
  4. Scampi

    Scampi L4: Comfortable Member

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    Was it Morrigan Alley, Siegemachine, or Batteringram?
     
  5. Narpas

    aa Narpas Takes way to long to make and update maps

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    It was Siegemachine
     
  6. Yakibomb

    Yakibomb L4: Comfortable Member

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    I fully endorse Medieval mode! Well, here are some ideas:

    - What about letting Engineers build catapults using triggers and filters? There is a catapult brush entity in Hammer that came with Portal 2 (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Trigger_catapult) that would do wonders. It's not exactly customizable for the player, but it's something new. The only limit is your imagination I suppose. (Other ideas: Walls, Health Kit Dispensers.)

    - A map-wide trigger adding "No random crits" to everybody. Apparently, it works, but you it needs to be refreshed constantly using a timer or something.

    - Spells? Can reduce damage via entities using this method I made: https://tf2maps.net/threads/guide-p...d-other-damage-types-for-medieval-mode.37932/

    I was going to use these ideas for my map, but it's not like it's copyrighted so use it if you want. Good luck!
     
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  7. Scampi

    Scampi L4: Comfortable Member

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    Is this really possible to do within a map? That's insane
     
  8. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord Occasionally I make maps

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    Possibly?

    You might be able to combine game_ui and temporarily parenting a collection of entities to the player to simulate placeable buildings. It'd probably be tough to set up and a bit finnicky, but it could be cool.
     
  9. hutty

    aa hutty

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    You can filter stuff to detect damage from engie melees, I would add structures in the map that only engies can hit to build fortifications or hazards. Kind of like how battlefield V handles it.
     
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  10. Yakibomb

    Yakibomb L4: Comfortable Member

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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