Map Titles/Names

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Master, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. Master

    Master L1: Registered

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    After posting on a WIP I came to realise that there are a lot of rubbish names out there that just spurn custom mapping. Valve is smart. They make suitable and sometimes interesting titles. I will list some bad titles and some good titles and you can work which is good and which is bad. (I mean no offence to the actual maps)

    1.Train Basin Flat
    2.Redwood
    3.Snaketemple
    4.Half-Acre
    5.Flats
    6.Scrapyard
    7.Observatory
    8.Smog
    9.Hoodoo
    10.Bigbear
    11.Downhill
    12.Tribitary
    13.Fool's Gold
    14.Gydan
    15.Jungle
    16.Stovepipe Wells

    These are just some that I found in both the WIP and the maps category (If it's just a codename or whatever for your WIP then I apologize)

    K, 1. doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 2. is not original but it works and is perfectly fine for a map (be careful with red or blu in the title). 3.,11.,15. and 13. could do with a bit more thinking as they are extremely basic and boring although Fool's Gold as well as 5. could just use an extra clever word (It's more about an object instead of a place). 14. is slightly weird as I have no idea what a gydan is and if it was something like well or granary it might work. 7. is slightly basic, its good to have observatory but it might be too basic for a final name. I don't mind 8. as it describes that landscape and is an original theme (It's in the same cat. as steel). Half-Acre has creativity but doesn't describe the map all that well and could use a bit extra. Scrapyard is fine for an arena title although hard pressed for others (Scrapyard, Lumberyard). 10. was slightly comical at first but then it seemed not so bad a title but it just doesn't desc. the landscape all that well. 12. is suitable and original (falls with well and granary). Now for 16. A great name. Whoever though of it (I think it was Nineaxis) sure did a great job. Even though I have no idea what the title actually means, I can tell it matches a desert or indust. theme. It just sounds very TF2y.
     
  2. Master

    Master L1: Registered

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    Oh i missed out Hoodoo, it sounds too much like Voodoo and therefore it sounds comical and it would work if those rock formations weren't called hoodoo's. Anyway I never really told you what makes a good name.:eek:hmy: First, the name must convey the landscape, a special feature or carry an industrial working or desert, mining theme etc. If a map has something that makes it slightly apart from other maps then work on it. Goldrush was called goldrush because it was the first (Valve) payload map and the main object is the cart and what is carried in mine carts. GOLD. What type of place has carts. MINES. What is the first mine that comes to peoples minds. GOLDMINE. Of course, gold mine sounds kinda basic, but goldrush is a step above whil not going over the top. The name should use industrial, mining etc. words. Well. Granary. Basin. Pit. All sound very much like the TF2 theme. Experiment with not just place names, but flora or buildings. Thorn for example is a good matching word not used. Simplicity is the key. There is only one more complex name of Valve's and that is Badwater Basin. The rest are, Gravel Pit, Granary, Hydro, Dustbowl. Very simple names. Any just be creative with your names and good luck finding one.;)
     
  3. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    A map's name does not have to describe the landscape of the map... you seem to put too much emphasis on that.
    Badwater Basin does not look like Badwater.
    Goldrush has nothing to do with the map, where is the gold? where is the mine/river? (they didn't even use the mine cart model anywhere!)
    Well is a carryover from the earlier TF map by that name, and is now nothing at all like it was in any previous version, making it a considerably horrible name if anyone knows the old one.

    Bold is quotes, for simplicity sake:

    --Snaketemple, Flats, Downhill, Jungle, Fool's Gold 3.,11.,15. and 13. could do with a bit more thinking as they are extremely basic and boring although Fool's Gold as well as 5. could just use an extra clever word (It's more about an object instead of a place).
    Snaketemple seems far from basic in boring. Flats, downhil and jungle (I would presume) accurately describe the landscape, which you seem to like...

    --7.Observatory its good to have observatory but it might be too basic for a final name.
    But Granary isn't?

    --8.Smog I don't mind 8. as it describes that landscape and is an original theme (It's in the same cat. as steel).
    It's debatable if Smog counts as landscape, but how can you compare it to Steel? I still don't know why it is named that, it seems entirely random.

    --9.Hoodoo Oh i missed out Hoodoo, it sounds too much like Voodoo and therefore it sounds comical and it would work if those rock formations weren't called hoodoo's.
    hoodoo in itself is an inherently "funny" sounding word, though I can't say I ever thought of the word voodoo, nor see how that would make it funny (voodoo isn't a funny thing... at all). Why would the rocks not being called that make it work? Doesn't that turn it into a random word (made up, if the rocks weren't named that) that is completely inaccurate at conveying any information at all about the map?

    --14.Gydan I have no idea what a gydan is and if it was something like well or granary it might work.
    Gydan I presume, and I already addressed the poorness of Well.

    --16.Stovepipe Wells Now for 16. A great name. Whoever though of it (I think it was Nineaxis) sure did a great job. Even though I have no idea what the title actually means, I can tell it matches a desert or indust. theme. It just sounds very TF2y.
    Stovepipe Wells is a town in the same region as Badwater.

    I don't feel that it is so necessary to strictly adhere to the valve naming "theme" as they are just as likely to expand it in the future as they did by introducing the alpine stuff. Why can't we ourselves expand it? If a mapper can convey the TF2 feel properly, they can convey it in a new theme just as easily.

    If it seems like I am being overly critical of your posts, well... I am. I know personally I put much thought into my map names (none you listed are mine) and I'm sure others do too. Because you contradict yourself, it seems to me more like a statement of your opinions on specific names rather than a guideline towards all naming, and I would not be happy to have one of my names looked down upon in such a way under the guise of objective analysis.
     
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  4. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    I'm working on one of the maps you listed above. I do not take offense, in fact the name isn't finalized. I was planning on opening another poll to vote for different names I had in mind before I had to finalize it.

    the map is a mining complex, which will include a refinery of some kind, administrative building, mine tunnels and open pit mine. Tileset is planned to be desert.

    Foolsgold isn't the first name I've had... here's the history i can remember

    Boulderlodemine - people thought 3 words was too confusing
    bouldermine - people said it sounds like we're mining boulders rather than the name of the mine
    boulderlode - same problem as the last but now even more confusing
    lode - simple, maybe too simple, and not a commonly known word (means ore or stash)

    I then had several ideas which I bounced off people... can't remember them all
    Klondike - would only be suitable should I make this an alpine style map
    BlackHills - requires me to establish entire new rock and dirt textures
    silvercity
    boomtown
    goldmine - while simple, it may be to similair to goldrush (which by the way doesn't describe the place, not even a thing, actually it describes an event) which could be a good thing if I wanted to trick people into playing...
    others I can't remember

    and of course the one that I picked last time I decided I needed a new name, foolsgold...

    I'm not at all attached to the name, but what would you suggest? like Boojum said it doesn't have to describe the scenery or environment. Well in TFC actually looked like a water source, although it was neon green water. now the only water is in the canals outside. It is no longer a "well" but was inspired by the original level. Also valve maps have simple names. so adding words to make them more interesting isn't necessarily the solution. Simplicity is also a good thing. We can't make our maps complete sentences or paragraphs to completely describe the scene... The map Turbine although once custom is now included in the game. What would you say about that name? It's not a place, its a thing, in fact 2 things, props, sitting in the middle of the map.

    In the end I chose foolsgold because it:
    -is simple
    -is mine related
    -can be referenced in the map itself (ie mine carts with "gold" in them)
    -is unique as far as I have found
     
  5. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    Personally, I don't care what a map's name is. Is it balanced? Does it work? Yes and yes? I'm sold.
     
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  6. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    There's really three categories one can divide the names into:

    Conceptual Names
    Dustbowl and Gold Rush. They're important events and concepts that contributed to American development in the early and mid 1900's, occurring on the American western frontier. Dustbowl describes the dusty location and basin in which the map is set, as well as describing the style one will find in the map- a kind of shanty mining setting, common to the Dustbowl era.

    Gold Rush likewise describes the map's theme- gold mining, as well as implying certain logistics of the map. Player are pushing a bomb cart to a set destination, as miners were pushing westward on the frontier trying to attain a goal- a gold strike, a jackpot, an explosion of wealth that could be theirs.

    In my opinion, these two are the strongest and best plotted map names in the entire game. You can sit there and contemplate the greatness of them all day.

    Hydro- it's that abstract name for water, it ties in with the dam and everything. It's a hydraulic power station. It's just a great name (and great map), there's not much to say about it.

    The Generic Location Name
    Granary, Well, Lumberyard, Gravelpit, Ravine. They're just generic names to describe the place the map is set in. Granary is a granary, Well is not a well, Lumberyard is a lumberyard, Gravelpit is a gravelpit, Ravine is kind of a ravine. What makes these names work is they're a single word with impact. Nothing abstract, nothing complex, just "here's the map".

    Unfortunately, it's hard to pull one of these off, you can't just say "I'll set my map in a garage and call it cp_garage", it's too generic. When was the last time "granary" came up just talking with someone? Probably never, unless you happen to be sitting in a TF2 chatroom all day complaining you don't like linear CP maps.

    The Place Name
    Badwater Basin. It's a place, the map is nothing like it, but it's pretty clearly in line with TF2's core theme- the western American desert and the mid 1900's frontier. There's not much to say. It's an actual placename, and it sounds good.

    I chose Stovepipe Wells for my map based on this same principle. Like Badwater, it's in Death Valley, and it sounds good and meets the TF2 theme. It just makes you think of what TF2 is. Bigbear? It's out of place in TF2. Gydan is too. Like the Generic Names, you can't expect to pick any name and have it work.

    What about 2fort?
    When you name your map 12castle and expect it to work, let me know.

    In Summary
    You can't just make a name ruleset, there will always be too many exceptions and cases against it. You can't expect to look down a list and say Yes or No, a name doesn't stand alone, a map goes with it.

    And this thread will only result in a large debate.
     
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  7. Master

    Master L1: Registered

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    I may have been a bit critical in judging names, but I think people just need to put a bit more effort into naming maps. I have seen maps on the server lists that just make no sense whatsoever. It didn't just say it had to be the landscape too. As long as it has something to do with the theme of the map. Im not critizing map names, just the ones that as I have said give a bad rep to customs
     
  8. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    Uh, gotta point the problem out.

    There is Gold underneath Red's first spawn. Mine/River, no idea.

    But there are 2 mine cart models in the map at least. Check by Blu Spawn on 3rd stage, directly to the right. There are also small mounds of gold ore there.
     
  9. Artesia

    Artesia L6: Sharp Member

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    I don't see how my map name gives a bad rep to customs... how can you say the name doesn't have anything to do with the map without seeing the map? Although I'm leaning towards the name cp_pyrite now... its a mining complex, naming it after an ore that can be found in such a complex doesn't sound wrong to me... cp_steel for instance, the only thing you could say about that name, is there is metal in the map... which is very general. I think you'd have better used your time to try and convince the surf map makers, or the orange map makers to do something more worthwhile.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  10. laghlagh

    laghlagh L6: Sharp Member

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    I'm really obsessed with names, they keep me from yaking maps such as shabbytown. however, your list is quite dumb. Smog, observatory and snaketemple each one describes the environment in a nice way. Snaketemple even describes the gamemode too!

    EDIT: Oh, wait. Thats a terrible set up list, it's so hard to read!
     
  11. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Anyone up for a game on koth_fartlol? I'd never touch that one unless I saw some screenshots of the best map ever first.

    (Also, I managed to thank your post by accident. Ahem.)



    Anyway, I'll take this opportunity to ask what people think of naming a map Vulture (2*3 CP). It somewhat fits, but it doesn't describe a lot, so I'm thinking of changing it to something along the lines of Dustbowl or Gold Rush.
     
  12. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    I'll post a proper responce later but I think you're mis-conveying pl_halfacre, you're calling stovepipe buy its full name (stovepipe wells) and halfacre by its filename not its full name: Devil's half-acre. Its the same as badwater basin, map name: two words, filename: one word.

    oh yeah, I'll add that I think you've incredibly over critical and I dissagree with most (not all though) of what you said :p
     
  13. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I believe the very people you intend to reach out to are the very people that don't spend their times in communities like this one. It seems like a wasted effert. Most of the less imaginative map names are simply uploaded here, promoted in a one off effert by a user with probably 5 post counts. Or simply place holders.

    It's like me posting up a thread claiming that all mappers should stop wasting their time on orange maps and produce something worthwhile. Whilst the majority of people might agree, the people who create orange maps don't care and probably wont end up even reading it.

    Orange maps or kill boxes will continue to spread as much as poorly thought out map names. It's an inevitability that for the most part, can only be purposefully overlooked. The only thing you can do is come up with decent map names yourself in the hopes of inspiring other map names. As mappers here create sophisticated and breautiful maps to that same end.
     
  14. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I found Nineaxis' breakdown of naming conventions to be infinitely more helpful.

    That said, I respect your opinion OP, and I appreciate the discussion you generated.
     
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  15. laghlagh

    laghlagh L6: Sharp Member

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    This is very weird. Are we only mapping for this website? are we making maps for the sake of tf2maps.net? This is a place for feedback, help and support. In most cases you make maps, you want them to be played by a larger audience than a group of specially interested.

    A name is an important part of a map. Like MMM said, you wouldn't join a server with pl_super_goldrush345.

    EDIT: Oh, so you meant... ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  16. cornontheCoD

    cornontheCoD L7: Fancy Member

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    ^I think he was saying that the people who make poorly-named maps don't spend their time on this site, submitting to gamedays, discussing, etc. so they won't even see this thread

    and all the ones listed in this topic are fine when compared to the horrible names of other maps on FPSB (orange maps and 'fun' maps specifically). I wouldn't say the ones made here 'give a bad reputation to customs'
     
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  17. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Yea, basically. A person who submits something like pl_super_goldrush345 is one that probably wont participate in theoretical discussions like this one. Nor after general feedback or improvement; but rather publicity and a free host for a map they likely consider as completed.

    Anyone else who has a particularly basic title is usually just using a place holder for the sakes of creating a [wip] thread. Then choose a more suitable name for beta or final release, when they have more of a feel of what their map has become/relates too.

    I'm not sure what you got mixed up with there..
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  18. Open Blade

    Open Blade L7: Fancy Member

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    Not sure what you mean by that. Anyhow, I will eventually get around to uploading final version of Shabbytown, which is very very different then the current version uploaded here.
     
  19. Dox

    Dox L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Regardless. I think we all can agree that we REALLY want to play pl_super_goldrush345
     
  20. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

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    Vulture doesn't really fit it to well from what I can see from the Screenshots so far. If I were you I would focus around something dealing with a canyon or valley or something along those lines. I'll think of a few over tomorrow and throw them in here for ya. :)