PLR Manufactory

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Zhan, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Surprise! The map you've been playing as plr_zhan_72 was actually planned as the first stage of plr_manufactory.

    I haven't worked on the previous stage of Manufactory of a few months ago for a while, and I plan to eventually rework the layout of that stage to make a two- or three-stage payload race map.

    While I'm working on the new stage (begun as my 72 hour map) it'll go by plr_manufactory_s1.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  2. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Need screenshots!

    Also, I felt like the name was taken, but a lazy google doesn't bring up another "Manufactory". Hm.
     
  3. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Trust me, I was trying to add those screenshots and tf2maps.net was giving me PHP errors ):

    EDIT: photo upload was fixed so now screens are in the first post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  4. Attsy

    Attsy L3: Member

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    Yey! A PLR map, my favorite. Will make sure to try this, but regardless you should defiantly put it up for gameday to get a feel for how it plays with players.

    Just from the screenshots though, I don't like that grain machinery in the center, might just be a placeholder but I'd replace it with just a regular brush.

    Another thing is it seems a little too sniper friendly, what with all the windows, the high places, and some lack of cover. (mostly talking about your top balcony screen, would love to be their as a sniper)

    Apart from that I cant wait to see how it plays and the rest of layout, from what I can see looks solid.
     
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  5. skinnynerd

    skinnynerd L2: Junior Member

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    If you defiantly put your map up on gameday, Okrag may get mad at you.
    So don't be defiant when you post your map. ;) </spellingnazi>

    In other news, some areas look open, like the sightline under the two ramps in the middle; making the ramps solid might help. Or you could add lots of shipping crates, those almost always work. :)

    From the screenshots it looks like there is only one exit from the spawn (if there isn't, correct me), and it looks very easy to spawn-camp. Giving the spawn a higher exit would help, and two doors on opposite sides of a building, like in thundermountain, would also work.

    It really helps people to look at layout if you include an overview (top-down) screenshot.

    You were probably having the same trouble that everyone else was with the database server, which I assume, because I can write this, is fixed.
     
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  6. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    This might be true, but the side hallways are easily accessible from both bases without going outside. If the map devolves into a sniperfest, however, I'll work on breaking sightlines and adding cover to the central area.

    There are two large exits from each spawn, one upstairs by the opponent's track, and one downstairs by the cart. I agree, one spawn exit could definitely lead to some ugly spawn camping. My hope is that if the top spawn is crowded with enemies players would be forced to use the bottom exit which would be disadvantageous for defense.

    Thanks for the suggestion, I will do this tomorrow when I can think more clearly!
     
  7. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    Looks nice, can't see all that many problems, just get a top down screenshot so it's easier to see the layout and put it up for a game-day, I'd quite like to have a test of this.

    Also, the grain thing doesn't look right, even if it is just a place-holder, maybe just replace it with a brush for now.
     
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  8. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Yea, that spawn does look like the only way (correct me if i'm wrong). I do like what I can see of the layout. The center area does seem open, but maybe just a small wall on the sides of the cart path? Not sure how to remedy it, but I guess that is a good thing :D.

    Not sure where Okrag would get angry at the map, but looks like you should post it up onto the gameday (only 1 day left!).
     
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  9. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    I don't think Okrag would be angry about putting up maps as much as he would be angry about putting it up in a Defiant manner.

    Defiantly - (adj) characterized by defiance; boldly resistant or challenging: a defiant attitude.

    Yes, bad joke on skinnynerd's behalf...

    Anyway Zhan, put up the map.
     
  10. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Here is an overview of the map, with nodrawed ceilings. Don't worry about the pink reflections, I built cubemaps properly in the file up for download.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  11. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    call it mannfactory
     
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  12. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Okay, I had a chance to test version a02 with around ten other people on the Cafe of Broken Dreams tonight; this was extremely helpful! Here are a few things I picked up from the 20 minutes of testing:

    1. The map was much too small nearly everywhere. Players were able to get behind the other team much too easily, and defense by either team was very difficult because they had no space to move around without being assaulted by the other team's offense. This meant...
    2. The cart was much easier to push to the point than I expected, even though the track is rather long for a payload map, because there was no real opportunity for anyone to set up a solid defense. However...
    3. Engineers and sentries were overpowered. Because the main central area was a bit too small, a single sentry could lock down all the exits from a base. This may also have been due to too many ammo packs. Others complained of too many health packs on the map.
    4. Some mentioned that there were too many tight, closed-in hallways within each base.

    These are problems I hope to address in my next release. If anyone has other suggestions or comments from the test tonight, I'd love to hear them. Thanks again to the ten or so people that tested this map tonight!
     
  13. Dark

    Dark L4: Comfortable Member

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    A few things that I think need changing after playing today
    -The cart shouldn't go by the enemy spawn, instead that room should be used as a place where red has an advantage over blue, and has a solid place to set up a defense, this will make it much more fun for people on the cart to attack, because they will have more interesting combat then trying to spawn camp one door
    -Mid seems a tad small, but most of the reason for this is because it can be locked down by just a few SG's before making a layout change you might try nerfing these sentry spots, because expanding a map is often very difficult
     
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  14. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Great suggestions Dark, I'll hold off on expanding mid until later; I'll first try lowering the number and size of ammo (and health) packs around the map.

    I think my plans for dealing with the base setup and spawns are to:
    • Push each spawn room back 500 units,
    • Add easier access to the upstairs (3rd floor) areas for the defending team
    • Lower the respawn wave time (from 10 seconds to like 4)
    • Reduce the number of routes attackers can take into each base.
    I'm reluctant to open up the upstairs areas to the middle area any more than it is since I want it to be blocked off from the middle by visibility with hints.

    Expect a03 sometime in the next few days!
     
  15. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    New release bump! Here's some information about the new a03, taken from the changelog.

    == A03: 1/10/2011 ==
    * Somewhat large redesign of base interiors, spawn rooms have been pushed back around 500 units and are now located in an outdoor courtyard behind each base.
    * The mid map has been lengthened by 128 units; sentries positioned on one balcony can no longer see the opposite balcony.
    * Each base's right front corner ramp room has been replaced by a more open courtyard area, with fewer routes into each base.
    * Added an easier route into the 3rd floor area by defending players; this should make defense easier.
    * There is generally fewer and smaller health and ammo packs around the map.
    * The central prop is now a large detail brush, to emphasize the fact that it is a placeholder for something else in the detail pass.

    Here are some screens of the new areas:

    The main area courtyards, these replace the old cramped ramp room:
    [​IMG]

    The spawn area, now pushed back away from the opponents' track and with a few more useful routes:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  16. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    New release bump!

    == A04a: 1/17/2011 ==
    * Fixed a couple track pieces having the wrong skin.

    == A04: 1/17/2011 ==
    * Final ramp has been replaced with a vertical payload elevator à la Hightower. Should make defense of the final stretch easier.
    * A few slight changes to the top floor area of each base.
    * Carts now move slower up the ramps in front of each base.

    Here's a updated screenshot showing one of the payload lifts:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Zhan

    Zhan L5: Dapper Member

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    Thanks to everyone who tested this on gameday today! You wrote a lot of useful things to the feedback plugin which I'll work in to the next version.

    A couple people were complaining yesterday that the point was too hard to cap (perhaps the lift moved too slow). Do you guys think this is the case, or is the balance between defense and offense alright?
     
  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    The central area of the map was a bit open, so snipers were overpowered. This wasnt the size, it was the fact that they were quite hard to circumnavigate. I'd suggest some cover, or side routes to allow flanking classes easier access. Plus, the design of the intermediate area made several routes used way more often than others, slight re-jiggering of that to focus players onto other routes.

    Also, that lift was too damn slow. My fingernails grew faster
     
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  19. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    I'm not a huge fan of plr, which I considered a somewhat flawed gamemode, but it turned out better than I expected and was enjoyable. The midle area might be a little too open. I wouldn't change layout and dimensions but add a few more cover options maybe, especially from those towering balconies.

    Turtling wasn't too problematic because people didn't try too hard, and the path from spawn to the final cap is not direct. That's pretty good but I don't know how it would have turned out if two people on each team were dedicated to guarding the final cap. There's a dropdown at some point that only scouts and jumpers can take to flank the enemy spawn, and for everyone else it's a big dead end that you can't really foresee until you know the layout. I'd consider giving a way for everyone to cross it, unless you have a good reason not to.
     
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  20. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I played this today during gameday and here is what I think. First of all the middle I feel is a bit too open, Blob could happily snipe people from the other end of the map. Secondly the end were the cart gets lifted needs to be sped up by like 5% as it took 3 scouts a little while to cap it, Thirdly after the game is won the cart hovers in the air....I blame gravity. Finally I felt it was as if as sson as I poked my head out the spawn door , I got raped by some pyro....
     
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