MVM Mannology

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Vaconcovat, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    Plateau

    Somewhere in the new mexico desert, there's a pretty important pipeline. To get to that pipeline, you have to access Mann Co's HATCH OF VITAL IMPORTANCE. Of course, the bots don't like pipes. So they're gonna blow them up. And you know what's in those pipes? MONEY.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  2. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a2

    Made the waves harder
    Replaced the church with this thing

    [​IMG]

    If it doesn't work then i'll scrap the idea of having a building as mid and just let people ontop of some small defensive area, like a small graveyard area or something

    also ammo
     
  3. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    bamp a3
     
  4. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a4, had to make some of the waves easier and then just some simple clipping fixes etc
     
  5. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a5, small wave fixes, some detailing and lighting
     
  6. compy

    compy L1: Registered

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    Players and bots can get stuck at the front upgrade station gate just by running into it.
    Players can also get stuck above the gate just by staying in the upgrade station while the gate closes.
    In addition, bots stop spawning after the middle of wave 3.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  7. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a6: Big map simplification. It should play a bit better now, there are only 2 paths instead of four.

    Not sure how the bots are getting stuck in the upgrade station, i'll have a look at that. And yes, i've fixed the problem with wave 3.
     
  8. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a7
    More detailing because nothing really's gonna happen to the layout
    Made waves harder again
    Adjustment of healthpacks
     
  9. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    I changed the name of your thread.

    Other than what we left in the feedback, I think you should really reconsider the start of the map. It's so open, but bots only ever go one way. I like the double buildings in front but if bots could go around the side that'd mean I have to move a sentry far more often, and right now I never need to move it.

    Also, your waves are super easy. Combined with the number of them, by the end, everyone is overpowered and bored. FYI.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2013
  10. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a8
    more bots, timing needs to be worked out though i can't really judge that sp
    some other detail stuff
    scaffolding around the church because there's a reason for it
     
  11. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/mvm_mannology_a8/

    I think the others are preparing posts for you. Other than my comments, I want to reiterate that I hate those tiny ledges (this time they lost us some waves) and the golden gun spies just don't function right and should probably be removed
     
  12. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    Here is my feedback from when we played today:

    1. Your pop file is insane.
    Really can't emphasize this enough. These waves are incredibly, ass-destroyingly hard. The later waves have too many spy and pyro bots, both of which tend to rush players in mobs, which leads to an un-fun clusterfuck while the other bots run away with the bomb. The earlier waves, especially the first tank wave, have way too many support bots and it makes it incredibly difficult to defend against them, especially when you don't have a lot of upgrades yet.

    2. The middle is useless
    Because of all the fences and other crap along the edges of the big central plateau, it's next to impossible to defend from it. Since players can't defend from the middle, they end up sitting at the beginning bridge area, and then falling all the way back to the final room when they get overrun. This combined with the extreme difficulty means that 99% of our playtime was spent sitting in the final room and turtling, which was made worse by the fact that:

    3. The final room is bad
    Once you're inevitably shoved back into the final room by ten thousand spy bots or similar, you're trapped in the final room. The big problem here is that the final room is almost completely isolated from the rest of the map. Once inside, you can only escape through one big door, which is the choke point where literally every bot is going to go. Even if you do get out, you're at the bottom of a big hole and the only ways out are by running up huge, coverless ramps directly at bots who have a >384 HU height advantage. You could really easily remedy this in 5 minutes by just cutting a hole in the wall at the top of the balcony in the final room, so players could get out onto the nice, big scaffold outside, and connecting said scaffold to the raised area next to the ramp on the left.

    Also, people complained about performance issues during the more hectic waves, but I had no problem because my computer runs on liberty and liberty has infinite power.
     
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  13. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    ugh, so i went from supereasy to ass-destroyingly hard.
    I'll try toning down the waves a bit and implementing the timing of bots a bit better to reduce the total bots at once.

    I'm going to try what you suggested to open up the finale area. The giant hole (window?) that i've done doesn't make too much sense but i'm not that worried about that atm. I also moved the fence back in the graveyard(?) area, giving a lip on the right hand side, and connected the scaffolding to either lip.

    Also, I'm not really sure what to do with the middle area. I've tried putting a building in but for some reason it still found no use. I'll come up with something.
     
  14. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    One thing that i vaguely remember from this is that there wasn't much cash for upgrades. God knows which version. (Or, frankly, if it was even this map.)
     
  15. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    a9
    ---------------------
    +Opened up the finale area with scaffolding leading to lips on either side
    +Added a building thing in the middle area, not quite sure what to do with it yet
    +Pickups adjustment
    +Removed most of the microledges, blockbullet'd the rest, to fix breaking splash damage
    +Made some waves easier and adjusted the timing of some bots to reduce the total amount alive
    +ok golden spys dont work but they are cool :(

    Screenshots
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    Reading through the feedback page, I just realized I looked like a bit of a dick. So, here's some more tactful feedback.

    Your first raised area works for the most part. Worst part of it for me is that bots can walk up from the front, meaning that sentry busters can reach their targets quicker than in most other maps, as can bots. I would either make the ramps longer/more awkward, or remove them outright.

    This raised platform should probably be simplified. I get that it's supposed to give players a height advantage, and while it does sorta work, it tended to be more irritating to jump on than it was worth.

    This area is the worst part of the map. I like the changes you made in a9, but I'm not sure if it will be enough to counteract the height advantages the bots get over players. I would either make it possible to travel from the church balcony up to the raised platform area, or make the bots go uphill instead of the players. Otherwise, flowing through that area could become a deathtrap, and irritating.

    I would revise your deathpit. It's good that you're thinking of sending the bomb back, but since the bots don't pass right by it, it's a bit hard to use, and may even get ignored by some players.

    The map overall looks pretty promising. While it has its issues, I'm looking forward to future versions of it, just to see what you do with it. Good luck!
     
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  17. Vaconcovat

    Vaconcovat L3: Member

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    Alright after a few tests on a9, its clear that the finale area either doesn't get used (this was due to OP sentry spots that should have existed, so they'll be removed) or is still easy to turtle in.

    Along with this, the whole church things just isn't working out. The map is just turning into a mining/western town, except with a grey rock theme; so that's what i'll let it become. I'll be replacing the church with either a warehouse or some sort of refinery, and instead of some weird scaffolding i'll have actual balconies or something. This will probably mean (another) namechange, but this will allow me to maybe add more path paths to stop all the tanking a single engineer can do.
     
  18. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I found the map rather boring, frankly. I mean, it's solid enough I suppose, but the opening area and the battlements just behind it are incredibly boring. They're just flat planes, with one or two cover points, and it felt like it was the highest point of the map when it wasn't. It's not necessarily bad from gameplay perspective, but from an aesthetic one the whole first half of the map feels really very empty and drab, and the feeling you get from fighting reflects that. The rest of the map is alright for this I suppose.

    The second wave also has way too many giant heavies, and the ones after it up till the final 2 are much much easier.
     
  19. Tarry H Sruman

    Tarry H Sruman Large Orphanage Proprietor

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    I think it's more of an issue of playing it safe tbh. The layout seems pretty standard, so there isn't anything particularly bad about it, but it isn't great either.
     
  20. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    I honestly feel that the waves are bit all over the place. You got good ideas for different type of robots, but they seem to be mashed together at random and they don't really work together well.
    I really liked the milkman scouts and heavies for example. If milkmen got you, heavies would get healed as they kept hitting you, but because waves before it were more or less quite easy, we already were pretty well upgraded so they never put up that much of a fight. (But least they managed to push us back for quite a while)

    Your last wave is also incredibly unfun, not only you have to deal with bunch of self healing giant scouts, you have to deal with army of smaller ones, pyros and giant sandman scouts. Whole final wave was just utter chaos and we almost beat it by sheer luck.