Machina

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Caliostro, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    My ctf contest entry. Edit: Durp... See bellow.

    Backstory:
    Red and Blu battle it out for each other's secrets inside TF industry's mega complex, Machina: a factory-like complex the size of a small city.

    Functional information:
    The map was built with 2 main objectives in mind: avoiding stalemates and keeping the fight interesting wherever it may happen, particularly in the neutral area.

    I tried to cover the first point by making defending the flag harder (and consequently capturing it easier). There are 3 ways into the enemy base, and 3 ways into the flag room specifically. There are 2 ways out of both. It's impossible for one person/sentry to cover all entry points or either of the exit points by itself, and the flag room is small enough that a single uber should clear out all sentries inside it.

    The intent is to make it more important to shift the focus of the game from the usual "camp our flag, and then make a run for theirs when the heat dies", to "get theirs before they get ours".

    For the second point I decided to pick my current favorite ctf "neutral ground", turbine, but add to it. The problem with Turbine's neutral ground to me was the lack of more vertical combat, and a bit more space (not open space specifically, just neutral space in general) I tried to have a lot of possibilities for vertical fighting in most cases for Soldiers, Demos and Scouts, while providing enough cover and choke points for Heavies, Pyros and Spies, and enough sightlines/open ground for Snipers and Scouts with a tad of "good but not invulnerable sentry spots" for Engineers.

    The vertical combat, specially for scouts, comes at a risk though: The higher you go, the less cover you have. It's a trade off.

    At the end of the day I tried to make a map that is hard to camp, particularly the neutral ground and the intel rooms, and rewards aggressive strategies while keeping the fight interesting. As testing goes on, I'll see if it worked and try to fix whatever might need fixing.

    Cheers.

    30/07/10 - Edit: After a heart crushing HDD problem which had seemingly sunk my entire mapping work into oblivion, I stopped mapping entirely. I didn't mean to stop forever, it was just devastating having my entire work (on both this and my cp map) completely lost. As such, I was, obviously, incapacitated to meet the ctf contest's deadline (which was over several months ago).

    That said, couple days ago I received the kind of information that left me absolutely ecstatic: my brother managed to recover my HDD, and with it my entire mapping "career".

    I know the contest is long gone, but I'll see this map through nonetheless. I was very proud of it when I said my goodbyes, and time has only reinforced my resolve. I'm not competing for any prizes, except for the biggest one of them all: see my map finally finished and out there.

    Hey ladies... I'm baaaaaaaaaack.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  2. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    The mid looks very turbineish. Also what is with people, this contest, and water?
     
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  3. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    That would be because it was inspired by turbine, as I mentioned in the op :p

    ... Because water fucking rocks... Water "mirrors" look fucking awesome x2, and I needed something to make sure people who felt like jumping down the horizontal pass wouldn't take fall damage.


    ...Also when I was building the map, and didn't have a ceiling yet, was just test-compiling with cordon and some insane height, I made a game of "shoot the demoman", where I'd just propel a demo from one corner of the map to the other and tried to land in the water just to admire bizarro physics at work.

    Apparently in the TF2 universe something like 20 inches of water perfectly break a 3 mile vertical fall...


    ...It was funny...


    ...Water's awesome...
     
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  4. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    What's the glass in screenshot 2? Also, I like the levels of cargo boxes, but you might want to expand on the map a little bit if it's your main fighting space.
     
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  5. Snacks

    Snacks TODO: Clever title

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    Spawn room doors are filtered, but don't have func_respawnvisualizer.
     
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  6. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    "fishtank". I dunno, random glass, it'll probably be changed in the next alpha since the blue tint is... meh.

    On the middle, I reckon I might have to work on it, but I wanna see how it plays out right now before adding anything else.


    FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-... Knew I forgot something.


    Hotfix commin' right up.

    Cheers
     
  7. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

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    Downloading now - will stick on the map lab 8)
     
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  8. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

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    Moving through the middle of this area felt really awkward: at ground level there are lots of obstacles, and you can't see much. On the other hand, the raised platforms around the edge felt disconnected: if someone takes the upper route through the middle when returning with the intel, you can't really intercept them if you're in the lower area.

    I think you need to make the upper and lower levels more integrated.
     
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  9. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

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    I'll just follow up my comments with a picture showing one possible way of integrating the levels in the centre of the map, so that the upper level is still useful for controlling the map, but much more approachable (click through to get full size):

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    Mhh...Interesting. I took a different approach, since it solved a different problem as well, but if it doesn't work that's also an alternative.

    Thanks everyone for the feedback, I hope I fixed the "higher route as easy way out".

    a2 is out, I'll post the version notes in a sec.
     
  12. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Here's a demo of a 12v12 playtest, on a2 Demo

    I must apologize because be didn't play a whole round because there was no coordination. I know they are in a FFA context, but my feeling is the map doesn't offer hints on where to go and how shaping the flow of battle ; I don't know what it would be in a 6v6 setup, but currently the gameplay may be a bit messy.
     
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  13. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    Cheers, demos are always helpful.

    a3 released.
     
  14. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    After some very successful playtesting on playstuff.net, I've started adding a very "thin" level of detail (textures mostly) to start planning the visuals along with the layout.

    a4 released.

    PS: I know there's a texture "wrong" in a spot, but I'll fix that in a5. Doesn't justify a new compile IMO.
     
  15. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

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    Incoming!

    Ok I don't know if any of this will be useful as I've not been mapping long, it's just what I'd do, but since you asked for it here it is. Sit back relax and let the beauty of my incredulous MSPaint masterpieces soth your soul. Or something...

    1. Personlly I'd close the 'front door' to the intel as it's a really direct route in. Instead I'd open another route round the back or the side. At the moment it looks like the back area will be a bit redundant. HOWEVER I've not seen it on a full server so I might well be wrong about this.
    [​IMG]

    2. Playerclips would make this smooth as butter.
    [​IMG]

    3. Do you really need 2 door props? Surely if the hat doesn't fit you don't put two on. I'd suggest a func_detail doorframe of your own creation. [​IMG]

    4. Be nice to have some cover around this door, for defenders and attackers. Maybe a wall with a permanently open glass door at the bottom (like at red's final spawn on hydro).
    [​IMG]

    5. Didn't really see the point of this area, it doesn't really give the attackers any new options apart from sitting over a spawn exit.
    [​IMG]

    6. It'd be nice to have the drop down a little further from the intel to give solis and demos a split second to try and fend off a scout before he grabs it.
    [​IMG]

    7. Probably my biggest beef. I didn't get the point of the little room next to the spawn drop down. It has doors on all but one side so it might as well be open space. This would allow you a bit more space to make the glass bits sit better by moving their doors over (to the left in this picture).
    [​IMG]

    8. No need to get up here, especially since you can't get down. At best someone will get stuck up there by mistake, and be pissed that they couldn't get down. No need IMO.
    [​IMG]

    9. these stairs are hella chunky, if they were a bit thinner then you could see through, as I've tried to demonstrate with my sterling MSPaint skills.
    [​IMG]

    10. I know why you have these, and I know you don't want me telling you I don't like them again but there it is. Yes they break up sniper lines but the same could easily be achieved by putting a kink in the corridor like so. That would negate the need for fiddly doors in the play area. I'd put em in a prop room.
    [​IMG]

    11. This ledge is tricky t get onto in a hurry (which inevitably you'll be in as there's a med health pack up there. Stop teasing players with it and let them just run up to it with some stairs.
    [​IMG]

    Like I said at the start, I'm no expert and this might not help you at all but I'm trying to take a more proactive approach to feedback so slap thanks if it does help, if not then please do tell me why not.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  16. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    All feedback is useful. Allow me to answer some of them individually.

    Not planning on doing that, sorry. The whole point of my map is having 2 main routes: One slow but safe, and the other short but dangerous. The main route you pointed out is usually the most dangerous as the team's spawn exit is right there.

    One option would be putting the main entrance slightly to the right, but that would make it even more direct IMO.


    As I told you I haven't gotten around to player clipping anything but the REALLLY annoying stuff, so, yeah, that's on my "to do" list along with the door frames' edges.

    I like the way they look like that. Gives me a "reinforced gate" feeling.


    Yeah, as I told you that is one of my plans but... Can't get around to visualizing it... Might just do what I did in the back with a glass "wall" with concrete framing.


    Allows a quick drop down if the flag gets stuck there, AND a quick way for demos and soldiers to get up on the top floor.


    The problem isn't grabbing the intel, or even touching it, it's getting away with it. Having the drop down there allows me to prevent sentries from being unreachable from the vent.


    Result of "add on mismatch". Originally it was just that room, so concrete made more sense, Then I added the other glass part and kind of forgot to adapt it. You're right though, doesn't make sense like that.


    Yeah, we talked about this. Funny idea, Not very practical. Will be fixed.


    I like them like this to be honest. Don't want them too easy to shoot through, but might make them a tad thinner.


    Kink in the corridor doesn't work as well IMO. I actually like them right now, but I'm open to suggestions.


    Yeah I probably will. I keep forgetting I made the map so I know all the "tricks" to it. To me getting up there is very easy and natural, but to people who didn't make the map it gets confusing.

    Cheers.
     
  17. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

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    You don't need to apologise, it's your map :p
    Like I was saying it's just what I'd do, doesn't mean any of it's right. :laugh:

    If anything I'd say move the door more to the left so it's nearer the spawn exit.

    P.s. I forgot you did say that you hadn't done the playerclipping yet. :facepalm:
     
  18. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    Cheers. A6 posted.
     
  19. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

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    Liking the simplicity of the redesign behind the intel room. In particular, the team coloured frames look much better, I hope you keep them that way.

    Also func_respawnroomvisualiser makes Boylee a happy buoy. :D
     
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  20. Caliostro

    Caliostro L6: Sharp Member

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    30/07/10 - After a heart crushing HDD problem which had seemingly sunk my entire mapping work into oblivion, I stopped mapping entirely. I didn't mean to stop forever, it was just devastating having my entire work (on both this and my cp map) completely lost. As such, I was, obviously, incapacitated to meet the ctf contest's deadline (which was over several months ago).

    That said, couple days ago I received the kind of information that left me absolutely ecstatic: my brother managed to recover my HDD, and with it my entire mapping "career".

    I know the contest is long gone, but I'll see this map through nonetheless. I was very proud of it when I said my goodbyes, and time has only reinforced my resolve. I'm not competing for any prizes, except for the biggest one of them all: see my map finally finished and out there.

    Hey ladies... I'm baaaaaaaaaack.

    A7 is released.