looks like we can have servers now

Discussion in 'CS:GO Mapping Discussion' started by Sergis, May 11, 2012.

  1. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

    Messages:
    1,870
    Positive Ratings:
    1,130
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,901
    If I get a chance this weekend, I'll get this set up on my computer.

    My net's been really wonky though, the past day or 2, so no promises.
     
  3. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

    Messages:
    987
    Positive Ratings:
    246
    Are there any plans for TF2M to have a permanent cs:go server? gamedays would be pretty cool.
     
  4. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,901
    We hope to expand into the CS:GO mapping with our Steam group.

    If enough people join the community, we'll look into getting a Forum.

    Either way, I'm probably getting a CS:GO server.
     
  5. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

    Messages:
    723
    Positive Ratings:
    1,017
    CS Community + mapping = Fail
     
  6. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,901
    ?

    EDIT: Doom and I tried to set up servers. It looks like we'll need a spare copy of the game and a spare computer to run the server (easily). So, I'm just going to wait for third party hosting.
     
  7. 3Dnj

    aa 3Dnj Ducks

    Messages:
    257
    Positive Ratings:
    425
    ahem... I can't remember how many beautifull and original cs 1.6 maps I have played. Still one of the best modding experience for me.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  8. RaVaGe

    aa RaVaGe

    Messages:
    723
    Positive Ratings:
    1,017
    Of course, i'm not talking about the game itself but about the community.

    See CSS, and how many fun,aim,orange- whatever maps are released, I think if you are trying to do a CS:GO community you will be invaded by this type of maps with the mentality who fit with, it will bring a large type of public, and for that you got fpsbanana, I don't want to be elitist but there is Mapping and Mapping, and tf2maps is more in the line of "Quality, not quantity", who fit with TF2 because it's the most hard to map in Source (for myself).

    And don't worry I really want to do a map on this game, and I don't think it's a bad idea to create a CS:GO community, but you will really need to filter the type of maps to avoid having a big mess with shitty maps. Imagine just tf2maps invaded by iddle, achievement, trade maps...
     
  9. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,102
    Positive Ratings:
    5,982
    I'm sure we can be just as snobby for this game too, don't worry.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,901
    Not on my watch!

    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. AngryAngus

    AngryAngus L3: Member

    Messages:
    101
    Positive Ratings:
    115
    The main reason for the horrible community of fun maps in CSS is because alot of children in families got CSS from other people that stopped playing it. Ask any kid and you'll normally get the response of it was my *Realitive*'s account, or my friend's account.

    That's why I expect CSGO mapping to be more serious, sure there'll be surfing but I doubt deathrun/jailbreak will be as lively in CSGO.
     
  12. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,557
    If that's the case then was it your only modding experience? The only thing superior in the CS mapping scene was the shere quantity of people in it.

    Excluding the fact that the CS scene is very much a spiritual father of the CoD multiplayer experience we all like to joke about; whiney kids, or adults acting like whiney kids, which does translate over to the modding community of said game(s). I find the general level of map quality for CS to be below average to similar games such as DoD or TFC.

    Couple the average attitude of the CS player with the overall knowledge and Hammer experience required to complete a "working" cs map and you get something that in no way competes with its (aforementioned) competitors.

    Most of the great CS maps were created by designers of experience from other communities. CS on its own didn't create infamous level designers the same way DoD, TFC/TF2 did.

    I know these are really harsh words but that's really the way i feel about it having been a part of all the game communities, DoD, TFC, CS and HLDM; and i wouldn't hesitate to say that any moderately skilled TF2 mapper that has gone largely unnoticed could make a name for himself on the CS scene.

    P.S.

    But then, after all that negative commenting on the old CS/mapping scene, that's what's got me really excited about CS:GO. The amount of mappers who will flock to it and produce some insanely climax worthy maps never before seen in CS. That is why i'm aroused about CS:GO.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  13. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

    Messages:
    878
    Positive Ratings:
    800
    Eh, I think your distaste toward the CS mapping community might be a result of the fact that CS Source didn't have a centralized hub for it, and the communities from CS mod days are long gone, so a lot of what was great is hard to find. You have to really dig to find the info, but there are just as many great mappers and maps in CS or CS:S as there are in TF2 (especially in the case of CS). Hopefully a TF2Maps-like forum can help make that more apparent with GO.

    And the notion that CS didn't spawn great level designers is way off-base. Names like DaveJ, n0th1ng, or 3DMike aren't being thrown around as much these days because of the time that's passed, but I think their internet cred is in a league above mappers from any other game. CS was just such a phenomenon, in terms of it being an e-sport and its mapping community.

    edit: wait, you're saying the general level of map quality for CS was below other games, and then implying that means any moderately skilled TF2 mapper could make better maps? Making a really good CS map is fucking hard.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  14. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,557
    Really? I dunno about that. Any game where you not only have to balance for 9 classes, vertical gameplay... and dynamic map progression is significantly more of a design challenge. It seems to me there's a lot more design involved in making a TF map than CS which essentially boils down to timing the initial combat locations and not making any daftly powerful sniper spot.

    Maybe you can explain why making a CS map is really hard, perhaps even harder than its counter part mods which to me appear to have way more design problems/limitations.

    I'm not saying CS didn't have its gems, but what i am saying is that with a required skill ceiling that's so low to produce a working cs map, the vast majority of maps produced were sub par because level designers weren't forced to learn more about Hammer or Design in order to create a working map, so the unique things done to make really nice maps such as use of alpha textures or models, or "nature" geometry was really rare; yet much more common in HLDM, DoD and TFC custom mapping scenes.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  15. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,901
    From what I'm noticing, is the "realism" of the mapping now. Since in TF2, you can have weird, semi-physics defying architecture/geometry. CS, doesn't really allow for that.


    At least, this is the issue that I'm having.
     
  16. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,557
    Personally i find that the easy part. Since CS environments are based off of real or potential environments you will always have reference material, something to turn to. If you don't have visuals to turn to, you can always improvise with a little engineering/physics knowledge. The difficulty i have with TF2 is finding out what level of "stylistic warping" of structures is acceptable. Because not only is too much or too little dissonant, but that value isn't a constant, it changes with each individuals perspective. So there will always be complaints, which makes it hard to place value on certain pieces of feedback about your aesthetics.

    This is just one of the many design problems CS doesn't face (unless a map author used a prop thinking it was one thing when in fact it was another and shouldn't be used in that particular fashion, but that's just general ignorance).

    Anyway i'm kinda derailing the thread here and i'm not trying to hate on CS, i just don't agree that the CS mapping scene was anything special; and hope that CS:GO will encourage more skilled custom level designers.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  17. zpqrei

    aa zpqrei Theme Changer Extraordinaire

    Messages:
    1,066
    Positive Ratings:
    1,122
    If you need a spare copy of the game, just email Chet or Gabe or someone, I'm sure they'll send us a copy for a server.
     
  18. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,476
    Positive Ratings:
    2,204
    From what I hear, it's not so much that creating a good CS:Whatever map is hard, as it is that your audience consists almost entirely of either the sort of kids who would be satisfied with an orange map, or the "hardcore" crowd who have a "so items, Fox only, Final Destination" type attitude toward the game and will refuse to play on anything besides de_dust2.
     
  19. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

    Messages:
    1,256
    Positive Ratings:
    841
    That is CS:S community for you.
    Last i check, original CS community still plays custom maps and ignores most of the garbage done in 5 minutes, but it has been years since i last played it so this information might be incorrect.
     
  20. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

    Messages:
    878
    Positive Ratings:
    800
    From making CS Source maps and TF2 maps, I found CS maps to be much more difficult. If you throw a half-way decent map at TF2, the game tends to stay fairly fun by virtue of its core mechanics. When a CS map is even a little bit lacking the game suffers tremendously.

    I mean, CS is a game where if two players can see each other from any location, one can kill the other instantly. That puts the margin for error in a layout close to 0. And not only that, but over the course of a round each team can go anywhere, and encounter each other from any direction (unlike TF2). So not only is managing sightlines incredibly important, but you've got to make sure each location has different advantages for each team at different times. Even if everything is great at the start of the round, if at any point a route or sightline becomes too good later (a path between the two bombsites, perhaps), people will figure it out and exploit that.

    Making a functioning CS map isn't hard, sure. But for it to be any good it takes a ton of thought and revision. There's a reason most CS customs never got any play - they just really sucked in comparison to the good maps.

    That wasn't really the case. Customs like de_contra, de_cpl_mill, de_cpl_fire, de_losttemple, de_nightfire, etc were really popular in pubs and comp. In fact just a couple weeks ago I start up source and immediately found a full server on cpl_mill. The Source community certainly didn't match the original CS community, but it wasn't that jaded.


    edit: I wasn't talking about detailing at all. Making the maps look pretty is a secondary concern. There were plenty of uber-pretty maps in CS:Source - they just tended to play like trash, so nobody cared.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: May 14, 2012