Let's discuss: Height advantage and balance.

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Belli, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Belli

    Belli L69: Deviant Member

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    It's quite remarkable how one of Valve's own maps that also happens to be played in competitive matches seems to go against the basic rules of mapmaking, by providing the defenders with plenty of high grounds and long sight lines:

    The roof on B, allowing soldiers and demos to spam the entire area and the control point, while also providing them cover.
    And C, with really good sentry spots, and even more height advantage for players on the point. Next to RED's spawn. On paper, that's some significant balance issues. Yet it's no question if it's going to be capped in 6v6, but rather how fast that's going to happen.
    Naturally, that's due to the nature of A/D, but what opportunities does Gravel Pit offer to BLU, other than fast respawn?

    - plenty of flanking routes
    - easy rocket jumps
    - final point is pretty vulnerable to spam


    So, what's your thoughts about this topic? In which situations does it make the most sense to give the defending team rather significant high grounds?
     
  2. xzzy

    aa xzzy

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    Limited health plays a big role on A or B Gravelpit. The run back from spawn is a pretty big deal too.

    Defense may geographically have the upper hand but offense has much easier access to reinforcements and recovery. Consistent pressure will quickly wear down any team's ability to be competitive in combat.


    Roof on B is a good example, soldiers and demos can certainly get up there and rain death on enemies, but they use a good chunk of health to get up there and it only takes a couple pot shots from offensive players to force them to retreat.
     
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  3. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    gpit is pretty controversial in comp iirc, mainly cause of the gamemode. like half the people want it out of the map list.

    i, personally, hate playing gpit, both the gameplay areas and the gamemode.
     
  4. Belli

    Belli L69: Deviant Member

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    could you elaborate a bit? So, people don't really enjoy stopwatch, okay, but I'm more interested in balance issues...
     
  5. Jeremy

    Jeremy L11: Posh Member

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    I personally love a map that has an adequate amount of height variation. It makes a map fun and interesting. It's the same reason why I enjoy games such as Uncharted and Assassin's Creed.

    As for Gravel Pit, I find it's fun only if you're playing with the right people. Otherwise it's not all that great.
     
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  6. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't stand Gravel Pit. I think what gets on my nerves the most is those raised platforms outside B that make you go the long way around to get to the doorway to C.
     
  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Balance issues? You mean, like for the tendency for it to either be a massive stalemate or a complete steam roll?
     
  8. yikitama

    yikitama L1: Registered

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    The map isn't the best in most cases, because of how it splits up the team too much on A and B and turns into "build all the sentries!" on C. but the height advantage on C is acceptable for a few reasons : there's a good bottom route from A, the tower is too far from the entries into the area for sentries to do much, (that, grenades, and rockets make sentries... meh) and LAST of all, there are 5 ways for blu to get into the area, 1 of which being out of sight from C. so that's when it's acceptable to give red a huge height advantage. (just imagine if the final point was on ground level,)
     
  9. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The height advantage isn't really that big at C when you realise BLU rarely attack from "the pit/gulley", so that extra 256+ unit height is rarely in affect since BLU are attacking from a moderate height advantage also.

    If you take the tower as a standalone structure then yes, it is very tall. But that's not how the gameplay around the tower works.
     
  10. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    there are no mapping rules, only guidelines that can be circumvented by people who know what they're doing

    just sayin
     
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