Labs

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by hpkomic, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Hello everyone, I've never made a map before, but I felt now was a good time to start. I hope you don't mind that I only have sketches available, as I am still learning hammer, but I am sure I can get some solid feedback as to the flow of my map.

    The basic idea is that the map is a single stage with 3 points for blu to capture. Each point also has distinctive visuals to help identify them.

    I am still sketching, so expect to see some other details later. I may also have questions on how to do some of this in hammer, so I certainly hope you'll be willing to guide me.
     
  2. bob+M|M+

    bob+M|M+ L6: Sharp Member

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    I like the idea. A 3-point A/D cap map sounds like a lot of fun. :) but there are some immediate problems you need to address. First, red should spawn behind the objective in play in a A/D map, not in between the objective and the blue team (2nd and 3rd point). Second, I don't see how blue could ever take the last cap. It is way too far away, and without any 1-way gates or 1-way height advantage it will be impossible to cap.
     
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  3. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Thanks for the feedback. Better reply point-by-point.

    Should I remove red door 2 then? That would leave door 3 as the immediate door to Cap B. There is also a red door right next to Cap C as well, I just didn't label it.

    The northernmost room is elevated, so maybe if I restrict red from being able to get to it, it will balance things out?
     
  4. red_flame586

    red_flame586 L7: Fancy Member

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    There is a very long line of sight from the blue spawn to the pile of what i think is boxes right up the other end making it a very easy place for sniper kills. I reckon you should probably put a big rock or hut in the way or something.
    Otherwise, remember to take your time and don't rush thinking that you have to finish really quickly... If you do this well, it could be a great map, I look forward to seeing this upon release.
     
  5. luxatile

    aa luxatile deer

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    Looking good, but are you sure you want the RED spawn that close to each point? It also seems like BLU can be easily choked next to A, and the fact that they don't seem to get a forward spawn seems might unbalance it.

    Good overall idea, though, I like simple A/D maps like this. :)
     
  6. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

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    I apologize for the length of the following post.

    I like the map. It looks like, if done well, it could be a very nice map. I'm not a big mapper like a lot of these guys, but I've got some comments/suggestions.


    Like what one said before me, the BLU spawn's front door is in the open from across the map. Do what he said, where you should add rocks or a hut or something.

    Since your map is mainly a one way route to Point C, you should add a forward spawn after BLU caps Point B. I say put it right where Blue Door 1 and 2 are, as that's not too far up, but not too far back.

    I find a similar issue between A and B. Since you're moving from a rocky alpine environment to a lumber mill alpine environment, maybe make that clear by adding some lumber to help make that area less open, and make your map look better.

    Addressing the concern of RED's spawn doors being too close to the points, and Door 2 being open for point B, letting RED come in from behind: I suggest removing Door 1. Door 2 could lock once A is capped, Door 3 could lock once B is capped. Also, either remove the staircase that is right outside Door 3 leading to B, or move B's door a little farther away (I like the former).

    Addressing the concern of Point C being hard to cap: Like I said before, I'm not an experienced mapper, so those out there like Youme or Nineaxis who know more than me could correct me on this, but I say you move Point C to the top left corner. Not in the building, but right below it. It looks like you have a wall or something there, blocking it's direct sight from Point B, which could make it a nice place to put. Also, make the raised platform on the far left have a wall so that BLU cannot be right on top of the point (We want to make it easier for BLU to cap, but not too easy).

    I supplied a (poorly done) picture of everything I said as I'm not good at describing. I edited your sketch by using the erase tool, line tool, and Selection tool in Paint and uploaded it to Imageshack.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Psy

    aa Psy The Imp Queen

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    I like your sketches. They're far more detailed then anything I've ever drawn. :p
     
  8. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    A lot of wonderful suggestions in this thread so far, thanks so much. Here is my latest version of the map. I have marked red and blue exclusive areas by corresponding colors, and the yellows and greens represent the height of elements, the yellow represents the lowest points on the map while the darker greens mean that area is higher up.

    [​IMG]

    Now for some notes. When Blu captures A, the tunnel near A is open. If you notice, there is a door in that tunnel that leads into another room, but it is locked until B is captured, once Blu captures B, that room becomes their forward spawn. The northernmost room covered in blue, which I've dubbed the "server room" (based on those old reel model computers) can only be accessed by Blu, and gives them a height advantage. That only opens when they cap B, however.

    One thing I don't have on this draft of the map is a stairwell that gives Blu access to the server room. As of now, they seem to have to backtrack to get to the stairs to take them up there. I believe what I will do is add some stairs near B.

    Between Blu's initial spawn and Cap A, I do have the drainage ditch and some rocky outcroppings built onto it for line of sight, I'll likely add more in way this in the area.

    Red also gets a special door, as they come out of their Cap 3 door, they can take tunnel/stairwell that gives them a higher point in the final hallway. Which they can use to get a drop on the competition. Good for Ubers and flanking I imagine.

    I may move Red's Cap A exit door so it's not right on Cap A. Heck maybe I'll remove it entirely. It'll force red engineers to build good teleporter locations during setup. I definitely want to add some more access to Cap A, maybe a ramp or something. As of now, it seems like Blue either needs to leap up the crates near the cap, or or hug the northern wall of the first area.
     
  9. littleedge

    aa littleedge L1111: Clipping Guru

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    You could always just rotate the RED spawn's hall to A and the BLU forward spawn. Make the RED spawn's hallway lead out to the black space right above where you put BLU's forward spawn, right under B. Then you just rotate the BLU forward spawn so it's longer left to right than up to down. That way the RED's faster route isn't right on the point, ad BLU still has a forward spawn right there.
     
  10. Ten19

    Ten19 L2: Junior Member

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    An awesome start! The layout looks pretty solid, aside from the already mentioned inevitable tweaks that will come when testing. I look forward to seeing it in action :)
     
  11. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    I started building the level in hammer last night. I have a rough version of blu-spawn, the skybox, a single player spawn and a functioning resupply locker (that doesn't animate...). I feel so accomplished! I'm hoping I can get the blu-spawn through cap A roughly modeled. I'll probably post some screenshots later tonight.

    Does anyone have any idea why the resupply cabinet doesn't animate when I approach it? I'm sure I missed something.
     
  12. Ten19

    Ten19 L2: Junior Member

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    Give the cabinet model a unique name and then associate a func_regenerate brush (which should be around the cabinet, where you want it to activate) with it.
     
  13. mtv22

    mtv22 L3: Member

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    If this it your first time mapping I suggest you read up on the tutorials for each new step you take, for example here is a tutorial on the respawn room.
     
  14. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Alright, I have the map laid out, and the control points placed. I have working respawn rooms and supply cabinets as well, and everything seems to be going fine.

    [​IMG]

    I do seem to be having trouble with making the capture points work, however. I've tried several tutorials and have had no luck. I am sure I have missed something incredibly simple, but I must be continually overlooking it. Some problems I have been having include:

    *Only the first point can be interacted with, and if blu caps it, they win.
    *Touching the other two points crashes(!) the game.
    *The timer seems wrong, the setup timer does not count down from 45, and there is never a "round start" transition.

    That being said, the layout to the map is looking just fine, and having run from point to point with a character has suggested I have the scale down pretty well.

    It just seems that things like working capture points, forward spawns and cap-based doors are eluding me.
     
  15. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Capture points work, and the map is inching ever closer to the actual play-testing phase. I'm having a little trouble with the forward spawn (please see if you can help), but I am sure I'll get that working. I'll also need to figure out how to make doors that activate based on points controlled, but I am sure I'll find out soon enough.

    How about a new screenshot?

    [​IMG]

    This is what Cap A looks like right now, there are plenty of ways to get to it and I am really excited about how much fun that first cap should be. Caps B and C are still needing a little work, but there should be plenty of fun there as well.
     
  16. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Blu's view of the final cap from the upper room.

    [​IMG]

    Still having troubles with it.
     
  17. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Forward spawns, capture points and setup gates are working, now I need to do the lighting, add some more doorways and finish creating some cover for both red and blu.

    Provided the door-creation and lighting stages do not take forever, the map may be playable really soon.
     
  18. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    I've been thinking a lot about class-specifics in the map, and I'm taking that into account as I assemble it.

    Scouts: They get a lot of love here. At cap A, the trench that divides the area can easily be double-jumped, and a lot of areas, such as the cap platforms can be accessed by scout jumps. There will be plenty of differences in elevation throughout the map that can be taken advantage of.

    Soldiers/Demos: They get a number of areas where they can sticky/rocket jump to get an advantage over the others. The building areas feature some narrow corridors for rockets and pipe spam.

    Pyros/Spies: There are several paths to each point, and plenty of flank-worthy paths to take advantage of.

    Medic: Trying to add in more cover-spots for Medics to build an uber. There is a small mining tunnel, (think the left tunnel in dustbowl 1-1) that blu can establish as a small base, perfect for medics who are building a charge.

    Engineers: Still developing sentry locations.
     
  19. hpkomic

    hpkomic L1: Registered

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    Still working on CP_Labs, unfortunately, the initial version was bloated and sloppily put together, so I am reworking the stage from scratch to clean it up a bit.
     
  20. A Noobcake

    A Noobcake L1: Registered

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    Red might need a little more cover on C, looks like snipers would be in heaven there. But other than that it looks great, and I hope you get it finished this time.