koth_terminal

KotH koth_terminal B0

Katsu! :3

Veteran Cat
aa
Jul 30, 2021
616
337
honestly right now if you were to add nothing but non-dev texture maps and get a 2nd exit for spawns, I think this would be a really fun map. I love the layout, I feel like it gives a lot of opportunities to different classes which some maps really suffer with. Every area of the map has a purpose and I find that really admirable! Mid kinda holds right now but I think that's because once a team gets the control point, they can spawncamp since spawn is so close to mid and it only has one exit. The brunt of the issue is that there's only one spawn exit, which allows for very easy camping. Your sense of scale in the map overall is really good! I like the details you have in it right now and I think with those as visual hints you really pull off the vibe of a subway terminal, which is awesome as well! I like the vent shaft area in particular as it allows me to sneak into the enemy's holding area as a spy or a scout and take advantage of their backs being turned. The subway trains I feel are a great addition to the map as you can do a lot on top of them, however they aren't covered by enough stuff to make them overpowered as any class. Even a sniper who is holding there can be pretty easily killed by any enemy because he's so out in the open. Sentries as well! I like your placement of health/ammo packs as well, I feel there's a good amount of health on the map already and I was always stocked with ammo no matter what team I was on.

Overall a solid 9/10, I think if you implemented a second exit for spawn (not a 2nd spawn, no control over where you spawn isn't very fun) and gave it a worthwhile artpass this could be a really really good map! I hope this at least makes it to beta cause I quite like the map already :)
 

RetroNuva10

L1: Registered
Dec 9, 2014
41
6
RetroNuva10 updated koth_terminal with a new update entry:

A2

Gameplay:
- Shortened cap time from 8s to 6s (hopefully to prevent excessive cap hold)
- Removed 1 resupply cabinet
- Added blockbullet in gap between trains
- Added nobuild to spawns and on benches, computer desks, and vent entries
- Removed small ammo from maintenance room beside point
- Moved medium health from observation room above point to drop-down vent exit
- Swapped medium ammo in observation room for full ammo
- Swapped medium health...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

Katsu! :3

Veteran Cat
aa
Jul 30, 2021
616
337
FIRST IMPRESSIONS - a2
(please note that I have not played a2 in a proper game yet)

POSITIVES
- I really like the additions of the boxes next to the trains! I think they provide a lot better mobility onto the trains that otherwise would be hard to access for most classes. Particularly as a Spy or a Medic, I like to have a vantage point above most of the area I can keep track of the players on the map with.
- I also really like the new addition of the window from the spawn area onto the control point! I think it gives an excellent viewpoint for teams on what the should expect, such as "Where is a sentry?" or "Where is most of the team grouped up?" I think for some classes this could be sort of detrimental, as a Sniper would constantly have to reposition themselves on the map to make effective use of their skills.
- The Nobuild & Blockbullets additions are very appreciated :)
- The addition of the tape for the capture zone is also really nice! Not knowing where the cap zone is can be kinda frustrating, as I explained on koth_durein the other day.
- I like the removal of the vent route to the train, as I never felt that anyone used it and honestly I never even noticed it until looking at this map again today!
- I like the change you made to the maintenance room where, instead of a slightly-open tunnel door where you can shoot through, it's instead just a wall. I felt like a lot of spam could come from that door and no players could really shoot back through it aside from actually going in that room.

MIXED FEELINGS
- The removal of the middle support beam near the trains felt really strange to me. While I understand it was likely unnecessary and maybe even annoying to fight around, the removal of it makes the middle area feel kind of empty, honestly. I don't really know how else to have the area not feel "empty" without having an annoying and more obtrusive prop in the way though, so maybe reconsider adding it?
- I'm also mixed on the revamp of the vent shaft. While I think having a dropdown into the main area is a good idea, as it provides a direct way to get into the small holding area in the maintenance room, I feel like it would lead to instant death most of the time? If the player goes down into it, they're likely to take fall damage and already consume the health kit they could've used when fighting. And the control point faces directly into the dropdown area, so it's a massive sightline with nothing to really remedy this? I think what you *could* do is combine a1 & a2's rendition of the vents, where there's a dropdown behind the two vent tunnels where a team can flank if need be.
20220617172257_1.jpg

(I think having the vents TO the dropdown being an upward angle would be better, as it would still provide the players holding in the area, if any, to have high ground, while still also providing a player on the enemy team to get to the dropdown or the enemy's side.)

NEGATIVES
- I think the removal of the small ammo box in the maintenance room was unnecessary, as there's already a lack of ammo on the map. I know it's a small map, but that also means you'll be shooting your gun a whole lot more than you would be on, say, Viaduct, because the fight area is a lot closer to spawns.
- I think this door overhead is a bit too close to the ground. Shortening it to this line would probably be good.
20220617172049_1.jpg

- It's a small gripe but I think having the small health kit on the bench, while it is kinda funny to see, is sorta annoying. I don't like being forced to jump when I don't have to in a map. Putting it in front of the bench would be better for gameplay. Alternatively, you could have a small ramp clipping there, but that might feel weird.
- I think spawns will still have an issue of being able to be spammed out when a team gets an advantage on the map. Adding a 2nd doorway to the single area where a team can leave spawn is more for aesthetic than anything, as attacking players can still shoot out the players in spawn. I think to remedy this you could add a 2nd spawn exit on the opposite side of the train directions sign, as show here:
20220617172026_1.jpg

This would prevent one team in being able to easily camp out spawn, as while they still funnel out into the main lobby, the team spawncamping would have to deal with two different exits. If a spawncamping player is between the two spawn exits, they would very easily be pincered by the newly-spawning players, thus letting them get farther out of their main area and closer to the point to try and approach the controlling team.

FINAL THOUGHTS
I absolutely love this map. I think what you've done with it is still really great, even if I didn't like everything about what you updated. Still absolutely a 9/10 and I'm quite looking forward to what you do with this map! :D
 

RetroNuva10

L1: Registered
Dec 9, 2014
41
6
- It's a small gripe but I think having the small health kit on the bench, while it is kinda funny to see, is sorta annoying. I don't like being forced to jump when I don't have to in a map.
You don't have to jump to get it.
 

sweglord227

L1: Registered
May 6, 2022
4
3
first post on here, decided to make it on a map that i feel has good potential

CALLOUTS so you know where i'm talking about
callouts.jpg
SPAWNS
spawns could definitely be revamped to make for better gameplay overall. as of current, in order to get to I.T, you need to make a complete 180 from where you spawn from. it might not seem like a big issue, but having to make a 180 is a lot less appealing than just walking straight forward to main. a simple fix to this would be to move spawn from where it currently is, to the back wall that is completely empty rn. from there, it would not only face towards the point, making rolling out more streamlined and flow better, you could also easily add a 2nd spawn exit to prevent spawn camping (like what katsu suggested).

spawn.jpg
TRAINS
i should start by mentioning: i like the trains. i like the trains a lot. they offer a lot of cover around the point and make fighting for it interesting and fun. they give both scout and soldier height to play with, while still being spam-able and able to be won over relatively easily with just a mild amount of pressure. i don't like, however, that you enable every class to get up there via the boxes. allowing a heavy to climb on top of the trains can cause a huge problem to the attacking team due to his massive health pool, and the fact that he's on high ground makes it harder to deal enough dmg to pressure him out, and even when you do get him off, you don't even kill him because he can just drop down to the rest/behind his team. allowing engi's to build up there can also cause huge problems because having a sentry up there disallows the attacking team to aggress into retreating enemies in order to finish them off.
it's also very hard to even kill the gun, because if there's enemies holding the forward train, and the gun is on the backward train, you literally can't spam the gun without dying to the people on the forward train. adding no build to the tops of the trains and removing the boxes to get up onto the trains would solve these issues easily.

VENTS
i believe that the vents serve no purpose at all. i.t. is already strong enough as is, due to the fact that if unopposed, it gives access the the entirety of the enemy's backline, on top of already being easily stuffed by a single demo/soldier looking at the dropdown. i suggest getting rid of it, and moving that medium pack forward to where its exit would have been. it is a nice pack to have, and is too dangerous for anyone who doesn't already own the point entirely to get. it just means that you don't need to bug your med for heals when he has more important things to worry about.

health5.jpg
PACKS
having only a small and a medium health pack on a map is kinda sucky. it means that for every little bit of dmg you take, you either have to run to a med, run to spawn, or hope and pray that you're the only person who's needed it in the last 10 seconds. adding a couple more would make everything just a little bit nicer. below are some of the spots i'd throw a pack in. they're all not in the fighting area, but close enough to it to be useful. im also gonna throw in where i'd place ammo, because i feel like there also isn't enough of that on this map either.

health1.jpg
health2.jpg
health3.jpg
health4.jpg
if you're wondering why i removed the full one, it's simply because i feel like it has no real reason to exist there. especially so after you add some of the other ammo packs around the i suggested.

END
welp thanks for attending my ted talk. hopefully you consider at least some of this stuff. anyways im back to being a ghost, cya
 

RetroNuva10

L1: Registered
Dec 9, 2014
41
6
RetroNuva10 updated koth_terminal with a new update entry:

A3

Gameplay:
- Added small health to "I.T."

Layout:
- Removed cardboard boxes (seeing if people miss getting onto the trains)
- Resituated spawn to opposite wall + added second spawn stairway
- Added third "mid" route from spawn to "I.T."
- Extended computer cab cover
- Moved map wall

Visual:
- Added fourth (back) wall to spawn

Read the rest of this update entry...