koth_Genesis (Development Title)

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by The Real Tom, Jun 11, 2010.

  1. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    Presenting
    koth_Genesis
    by Tom
    :O:O:O

    Ladies and Mentlegen, i present to you my first endeavor in to Team Fortress 2 level design.

    Everywhere you look there is recommendations to use koth as your first map mode, i see why now. The name Genesis is just a development title, i chose genesis as the name because it is the start, the beginning of me as a mapper.

    I'm going to be balancing it around 6v6 play as koth lends it self well to competitive play however viaduct seems to be the only map the community accepts. I feel there should be more. My primary class is soldier so expect a good rollout and some high skill jumps. I'll be calling in the demo and scouts of my team to look at making some jumps too. I'm hoping to make it the kind of map that you can get around super fast if you know how.

    I want your opinions on everything relating to this map. I'm releasing this map early in the development stage to get as much feedback as possible from you. I can't stress this enough, this map is going to be made as much by the community as it is myself. Add to these lists:

    Issues:
    • - Mid point is way too open
    • - Needs more z axis
    • - Review ammo and health locations
    • - Train is biased to blu team
    • - Places that lead no where
    • - Crane is terribly made.


    To do:
    • - Finish layout (Read 1st Issue)
    • - Redo Cranes
    • - Theming (Alpine most likely, Would like to do swamp but I'm not sure if it would fit.)
    • - Name (Suggestions please)
    • - Make bridge awesome
    • - Lighting (Need to learn more advanced lighting techniques/hdr)
    • - Flavour (Subtle nods to my friends and communities, I want some humor too)
    • - Polish (Everything MUST be perfect on final release)

    Target for final release: AUGUST
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2010
  2. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

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    Your layout looks quite solid: I can't wait to play it!

    but...

    You need light! All you really have to do, given that your map is mostly outside is throw in a light_env. Really. Its that simple. I will guarantee you that it will make your map look infinatly better, and I can also guarantee that you will not get anyone to playtest on a fullbright map.

    You also seem to know exactly which direction you want the map to go, which is both unusual, and great!
     
  3. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    The layout has good potential, but it needs to be less flat and open near the point. You notice how viaduct's spawn is a lot lower than the hill, and there's stairs and hills. It makes it more interesting to play.
     
  4. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    Basic lighting added, does this warrant a new map version? (_a2 or _a1.1?) I assumed not because it should have been there in the first place. I updated dropbox don't worry. :p

    Thanks for the confidence in the layout guys.

    I do agree it needs to be less flat (See issues point 2). Perhaps i could make it less flat and less open with the same stone? My issue with making a physical hill is the train, will it be ok to make the train go up/down hill? In my experience moving things in the source engine are best off only going straight otherwise they become jumpy and lose a lot of immersion.

    One thing i want to do is to add a door or window to the wall right in front of the spawn which opens when the train comes to allow you to hop on top and get carried to the central point. Could be great for surprise attacks (Pocket, Demo and medic hop on train while scouts hold flanks and roam distracts.) Also spies could hop on while cloaked and be fast tracked to behind the enemy. This should lead to a fast paced, dynamic game.
     
  5. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I had a little idea.

    Hopefully you can understand my drawing.

    I tried to make the layout less "boring". it gives you the ability to jump onto the trains like you said.
    You can use your imagination for height variations however you want.
    You might also want to do something more exciting with mid, like make a river flow through it or something.

    [​IMG]

    The only thing that stays in the same place in that video is the tracks and the point.

    Feel free to not use/use any combinaitons of these ideas or not use anything at all.

    You should know that I'm also not that great with layouts usually, so best not to copy it pixel for pixel
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  6. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    I'm not sure about that layout. Maybe i'm not understanding it properly but it just seems to change things that don't need changing? :huh:

    Here's the current plan of it:

    [​IMG]

    The goal is to offer routes which provide strategic decisions rather than something which is simply fun to run around (Think Granary).

    I'm thinking of using walkways or cranes (perhaps both) to liven up the middle.

    Maybe theme it like Freight/Well, have cranes loading or fixing up trains.. hmm :unsure:
     
  7. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    Well, here's my screenshot analysis:

    1) Your map has a lot of open, unused, square space. This leads to massive sightlines (your entire train track is a sightline for snipers, the battlements are massive advantages, etc.

    2) That about sums it up, except some more articulation to the map itself.

    Now, onto more current and pressing issues.

    I like that you're trying to plan strategy in your map, but I think you're trying to be too blunt with it. Granary isn't just a map that's fun to run around, it is also very receptive to strategy. To me, strategy is something the players need to provide. You need to provide a map where strategy can occur, not where strategy is forced.

    For example, I can say with a lot of confidence that players will use the battlements often, as snipers. This will provide a massive disincentive for players to leave cover, and capture the point. Thus, the map will foster huge sniper fights, and a lot of frustrated non-sniper players.

    Additionally, the high ground sideroute is nice, but it has a huge advantage over the opposing teams main route, height advantage (if I can see through the fullbright).

    The middle route is pretty much suicidal, as you are exposed in the middle of the open, with no immediate cover. Any player who can see you will, and any sniper who isn't fighting someone else will probably start to take shots at you.

    I think Aly made a good point with her drawing by increasing the amount of routes to middle. I would also suggest that you add some more health, and variate the middle quite a bit more.


    All of the above holds little water, due to the lack of testing though :/
     
  8. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    I've got some big changes in mind for the middle that will shape how the rest of the routes turn out. ;)
     
  9. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    Released alpha 2!

    I knew that the middle needed something more. The idea hit me when i was playing pl_cranetop. The cranes offer a route with a vertical advantage that takes you away from the main battle. At the moment they're just basic shapes. I need to practice block work much more before i feel that i can produce a crane which will have the correct dimensions.

    Building these cranes produced more problems than they solved but i've worked through all the errors and they're stable now. I'm going to be clipping off the top of the cranes.

    It's more likely that the map will be themed like a train yard now.
     
  10. The Real Tom

    The Real Tom L1: Registered

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    Sorry for not keeping up with this project, I lost the .vmf for this map in a hard drive failure.

    BACK UP YOUR STUFF PEOPLE, IT MIGHT HAPPEN TO YOU.

    Here's a bad screenshot of what it looked like in a3, it was gonna be a pretty big update :S

    http://lookpic.com/c1/i2/3267/CyPiS5wj.jpeg
     
  11. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

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    That's a shame dude :(

    One thing I can say, is you have a leak (ie parts of the void are coming into the map) and because of that, your shadows are pitch black.

    You can find out where this leak is by clicking Map -> Load Pointfile, and then pressing "Yes" to 'Load default pointfile?'.

    Once you fix this leak, there may be more that appear each time you compile VBSP, so keep compiling VBSP without VVIS or VRAD until it's no longer got any leaks. Then next time when you run VRAD, it might take a tiny bit longer, but your shadows and lighting will look so much more realistic and won't be pitch black :)