KotH Kliff

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Nopey, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    koth_kliff is inspired by koth_flake and pl_upward.
    This is my first map, so please make some constructive criticism.

    I HAVE DECIDED TO MAKE A NEW MAP, AS THIS ONE WAS NOT THOUGHT OUT AT ALL. (anyone know how to move this to the orphaned maps section?)

    Current Version: A3

    Downloads:
    A3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqd33qsf8ufei05/koth_kliff_a3.bsp.bz2?dl=1
    A2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6pcmihckg0evcpv/koth_kliff_a2.bsp.bz2?dl=1
    A1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/38cygcxfqj0ag1f/koth_kliff_a1.bsp.bz2?dl=1
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  2. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    There is no cover on the control point. That's something you would do without thinking about it, because literally every koth map does that in some way
     
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  3. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    OK, that could be too much cover, but then again it is literally next to a cliff, so it is completely possible that I'm wrong.

    Oh. There's railings there. One more suggestion: remove the railings next to the control point or lower the cover facing the back a bit. I recommend going door number one, few koth maps have death pits.
     
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  4. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    yeah, i agree that the fences near that need to be reduced.
    though I could try moving the point closer to the edge

    I will try looking at some other KoTH Map's control points, and see how much cover they have.

    Whats going door number one?
     
  5. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    remove the railings. Because it's the first thing I listed
     
  6. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    No fence or no fence near point?

    Oh, crud. by Reduced i mean, make 'em so they aren't near the point, perhaps like that piece of the cliff was broken off, fence and all. (not too much of the cliff needs to be removed for this effect, or else it will be bad :/)

    Or maybe remove them altogether from the map?
    I need to test if its easy to airblast/force-a-nature/explode people off it.
     
  7. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    For now I'm going to completely remove the fence. (upward had almost no fences, might as well stick to that :unsure:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  8. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    OK, after playing with some bots, I think I figured out the major layout problems with this map.

    Exhibit A :
    [​IMG]
    Although cover is an excellent necessity to every KOTH map, adding it to the back of the point is a bit accessive. What I've drawn, is you should remove the back cover, thin out the side cover a bit, and add some more side cover facing the spawns that's also somewhat thin. Also, I drew in some battlements as you can see here. I also recommend you take out that medium medkit, place a small medkit on the battlements, and replace the medium medkit with a full ammo pack, as there isn't much ammo on the map to begin with.

    Exhibit B :
    [​IMG]
    I didn't even know this path was here till I saw it in a kill cam. That's how little of use it is. While it serves no purpose other than to get to the high point of the orange room without going through resupply, it fails at it's job. A: I'd rather get the health and ammo on the way anyway. B: Walking across it is hazardous, as it contains no cover. I recommend adding a roof with some railing along with some covered area on the side. Or the least you can do is add some hydro barriers.

    Exhibit C :
    [​IMG]
    What the heck are the turbines doing here? If it's to disconnect the areas, it makes the areas continue to seem connected, also they don't seem to need to be there other than to make the previously mentioned bridge more useful. Either remove them altogether or replace them with a room with like a window or something.

    Exhibit D :
    [​IMG]
    As for the map in general, it was horrendously hard to defend because of it's complete lack of crowd control. So much as some walls with doorways will work. Also, the map lacks any real battlements, so I drew in some good spots for them.

    Exhibit E :
    [​IMG]
    This is just my opinion, but you should remove the fence and make use of that ramp, as I've drawn here.

    HOWEVER: You do not need to simply do what I said exactly, I'm just giving guidelines as to how you can improve.
     
  9. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    I've made update A3 (the hardest part of updating is updating the screenshots :() Doing most of what you said. I didn't get rid of that fence, as i plan on adding windows and a roof to that, to make it look all cool (and distract from the bland 3d skybox i'm planning on making in beta) I didn't add the battlements to the spawns, but i will as soon as i figure out how to make a stair up there without it looking bad.

    Off Topic, but what is that hair?
     
  10. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    You mean my heavy cosmetic? It's the bullet buzz.

    Back on topic, you asked if there was a better name. I nominate Plateau.
    Looking at the update, it fixed a heck of a lot of things :) Bots used to just use the main exit with the exception of spies and engies. The map is more crowd controlled, so I didn't find literally the entire team on the point. And there is in fact a point in building sentries now.

    BTW next week, keep checking up for gameday posts. This needs some testing with people other than bots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  11. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    I have been playing with bots, and i just found the stupidest mistake, EVER.
    In the battlements, where with the newly covered path to the orange house, i put a full ammo pack.
    It is WAAY to easy to put a sentry on that path and kill the entire team as they walk out of spawn.
    I'm going to change the ammo to just a small, but how do you propose i make that overpowered sentry spot less amazing? perhaps make it covered on the back, but then blast jumpers can't get up there easily. Or maybe add some cover around the spawn door?
     
  12. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    Okay, here's my idea. Change the ammo pack in the orange house to full, and the one next to the battlements to small. And also, what I recommend is putting like a foyer type thing around the doors. Basically cover it up with some small walls and a tad bit of a roof.
     
  13. Bakscratch

    aa Bakscratch Finisher of Maps

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    Just a note, don't rely on bots for testing. They are stupid and ignore parts of the maps at times, they are ok for testing either really early or if you are bored and just wanna play. but don't use bots for testing, Join the chat ask for it in the next imp or gameday. Ill have a look at the map later.
     
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  14. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    I actually love to use bots for testing because they exaggerate player strategies and it's easier to spot the flaws :)
     
  15. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    Bots don't behave like human players at all. If anything, bots make it easier to spot flaws that are not really even there.
     
  16. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

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    bots suck at killing sentries

    make no gameplay adjustments until that ammopack has been proven to be a problem with humans
     
  17. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    They don't even switch to spy, when they are being killed alot by sentries/snipers

    As for joining an impromptu, i don't have any non-f2p games on my steam account, do i can't join the group chat (you used to be able to, but valves a little annoying with things like this.)

    Maybe instead of using steam chat for the impromptus, people could use the IRC channel, which is currently almost unused. (probably a bad idea, i'm not a mornings person)

    EDIT: I've figured out the gamedays timing, and will be checking alot on the days leading up to saturday
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  18. Faux Rhinoceros

    aa Faux Rhinoceros Also known as Dr. Element

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    Hell, they can't even rocket jump.

    For all serious purposes, bots are as useful for testing as a chimp with a keyboard.
     
  19. Nopey

    Nopey L1: Registered

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    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014