KotH Ivanpah a6

[ProfHappycat]

Ivanpah - KOTH map set in the Mojave Desert

a simple little KOTH map i made using the husk of a scrapped 5cp map!

Spoiler: a1 images

 

[ProfHappycat]

-removed and moved around pickups
-renovated the side areas around mid to help remedy the un-contenstable nature of the last version
-changed lighting/skybox to the hydro sky and highpass lighting



speshul thanks to yrr for telling me about a real handy way to copy geometry around using visgroups, and wormatty and some others in chat for layout advice and general theory advice

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[ProfHappycat]

-fixed some clipping in the connector areas
-compiled without cordon (whoops) and fixed some areas that leaked
-fixed light shining through func_brushes on the roof



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[ProfHappycat]

-removed the side shacks beside the point on mid
-removed the roof on mid and modified some cover around it
-widened the stairs on one of the side flanks
-made some of the ammo around the point smaller


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[ProfHappycat]

-completely redid the entire lobby area, lighting, some parts of mid, and the left flank
-whole lotta other stuff that i can't list here
-added some smol details and fixed bugs


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[ProfHappycat]

-fenced off a bit
-closed up a window at mid (except for a top corner, have fun demomen)
-added a small shed near mid for cover
-patched up blu spawn
-added a light


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[ProfHappycat]

-moved spawns forward about 256 units
-changed lighting color/skybox to dustbowl (was hydro)
-added extra clipping
-modified the building in front of spawn slightly
-added signs for battlements, capture point exits, etc
-probably some other small stuff not mentioned here


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[b1gl4ke]

You could move the height of one of the entrances between spawn and the second area. Maybe route it to a second story of the building.

 

[nitewalker]

this post is largely subjective feedback, but i think a lot of the changes i'm going to mention are worth considering. I think this map has some interesting things going for it, but also suffers from a lot of geometry that makes for uninteresting or unfun fights

So, I really don't like the way the point is set up, or your frequent use of freestanding walls in general. The thin narrow walls all around the point (that are only reachable by a small number of classes) are fairly easy to abuse and can be frustrating to play against if someone who is good is consistently abusing them. the only real counter is someone sitting back and playing sniper to shut them down.

consider converting them to shacks as indicated, with props to climb up onto them. allowing every class the opportunity to fairly easily access the highground around mid makes it less frustrating, and having blockier geometry around the point helps define fighting areas more clearly. also, setting up the shacks as shown allows for sniper counterplay, backing down the slope or pushing up the slope makes you much harder to headshot and can cover your body more effectively. for reference on these points, consider viaduct, arguably the most successful koth map in the game. around the middle, there is a rock on either side. this rock has a dynamic surface, is accessible by every class, and creates clear boundaries and rotations from one side of the middle to the other, as well as pinching the lowground behind the point. another benefit of these shacks is improving the height variability on the midpoint itself, which is flat throughout a large amount of area. hopefully these changes will make the middle point feel more viable and balanced for every class, especially slower classes.

Another issue that i think the map has is that it has no distinct high or low ground, everything is relatively flat (even though there is generally a lot of variation). I think if you were to just drag some of your highground to a bit more of an extreme and pull some of your low ground a bit lower it would make for much more interesting fighting in general.

Lastly, a bunch of important changes that dont need lengthy explanations
-your spawn is easy to spawncamp, make both doors full size and have them exit from different directions, increase the size of the exterior spawn area and make spawners have height advantage
-the yard between spawn and the point is a huge no mans land, you could basically delete it and merge the series of interiors from the point to the spawn and no one would notice, cause it wont be used anyway
-a lot of your flank routes feel incredibly isolated, they have 1 exit and 1 entrance and you just move along their length, compare this to basically any map that uses flank routes heavily in the game and you will see that they always have a bunch of different entrances
-there are a lot of high places (especially around the point) that look like you can access them but you cant. as a general rule of thumb, you should have a logical cutoff in height that you can jump to and then a significant space before the next heighest item in each area. heres a little diagram to better explain that.

on your map i count at least 4 locations around mid that are inaccessible but lower than an accessible area, and 2 of those are lower than very easily accessible areas.

hope this helps, good luck with the map dude!

 

[ProfHappycat]

this post is largely subjective feedback, but i think a lot of the changed i'm going to mention are worth considering. I think this map has some interesting things going for it, but also suffers from a lot of geometry that makes for uninteresting or unfun fights

So, I really don't like the way the point is set up, or your frequent use of freestanding walls in general. The thin narrow walls all around the point (that are only reachable by a small number of classes) are fairly easy to abuse and can be frustrating to play against if someone who is good is consistently abusing them. the only real counter is someone sitting back and playing sniper to shut them down.

-snip-

consider converting them to shacks as indicated, with props to climb up onto them. allowing every class the opportunity to fairly easily access the highground around mid makes it less frustrating, and having blockier geometry around the point helps define fighting areas more clearly. also, setting up the shacks as shown allows for sniper counterplay, backing down the slope or pushing up the slope makes you much harder to headshot and can cover your body more effectively. for reference on these points, consider viaduct, arguably the most successful koth map in the game. around the middle, there is a rock on either side. this rock has a dynamic surface, is accessible by every class, and creates clear boundaries and rotations from one side of the middle to the other, as well as pinching the lowground behind the point. another benefit of these shacks is improving the height variability on the midpoint itself, which is flat throughout a large amount of area. hopefully these changes will make the middle point feel more viable and balanced for every class, especially slower classes.

Another issue that i think the map has is that it has no distinct high or low ground, everything is relatively flat (even though there is generally a lot of variation). I think if you were to just drag some of your highground to a bit more of an extreme and pull some of your low ground a bit lower it would make for much more interesting fighting in general.

Lastly, a bunch of important changes that dont need lengthy explanations
-your spawn is easy to spawncamp, make both doors full size and have them exit from different directions, increase the size of the exterior spawn area and make spawners have height advantage
-the yard between spawn and the point is a huge no mans land, you could basically delete it and merge the series of interiors from the point to the spawn and no one would notice, cause it wont be used anyway
-a lot of your flank routes feel incredibly isolated, they have 1 exit and 1 entrance and you just move along their length, compare this to basically any map that uses flank routes heavily in the game and you will see that they always have a bunch of different entrances
-there are a lot of high places (especially around the point) that look like you can access them but you cant. as a general rule of thumb, you should have a logical cutoff in height that you can jump to and then a significant space before the next heighest item in each area. heres a little diagram to better explain that.

-snip-

on your map i count at least 4 locations around mid that are inaccessible but lower than an accessible area, and 2 of those are lower than very easily accessible areas.

hope this helps, good luck with the map dude!

thanks for all the feedback! i've never really been satisfied with the point and i have to admit i've been putting off renovating it for a while, it always felt a bit cramped and "artifical", if you get what i mean. anyways, i'll keep this in mind for the next update(s), thanks a bunch!

 

[nitewalker]

thanks for all the feedback! i've never really been satisfied with the point and i have to admit i've been putting off renovating it for a while, it always felt a bit cramped and "artifical", if you get what i mean. anyways, i'll keep this in mind for the next update(s), thanks a bunch!

yeah, i totally understand what you mean. even though the point is relatively flat and open, it still feels cramped because of the walls. i think the cramped-ness is something that having larger, blockier layout pieces will help with, because it gets everyone onto different height levels instead of everyone standing straight in front of one another. it will also prevent people from clumping up around the walls, which are the best cover in the area right now, in favor of finding ways to block sightlines creatively with the big blocks that they can maneuver around/on.