Is there an "unimportant" class?

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by Hawk, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Hawk

    Hawk L7: Fancy Member

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    I think Valve achieved a pretty good balance with the set of classes they've given us. It feels like each job has a specific purpose, and to take any one of them out, it would leave a sort of a hole in the team. I also think it would be hard for them to ever add an additional class without upsetting the balance.

    But for the sake of discussion I was wondering what people thought the most expendable class would be. If they were to axe one of the classes, which one do you think would make the smallest impact on gameplay? And you have to consider all of gameplay types. Just because one class isn't good for Payload, for instance, doesn't mean they're not useful.

    As for myself, I ended up choosing the Soldier. I think he's useful, but forced to pick somebody replaceable, I had to go with him because the Demoman seems to be capable of a lot of his functions, yet still has the stickybombs available. His grenade isn't quite an adequate rocket replacement, but in the right hands can be nearly as good. I might have considered the Pyro, were it not for the fact that he's so good for finding spies.

    So, any opinions?
     
  2. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    Probably the (GASP) Medic. I mean, you could add in a lot of health packs to the level to overstipen the lack of him.
     
  3. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    I feel that is only because the demoman is currently broken, over-enabled and intrudes into the soldier's niche. Something needs to be done to make him less of a soldier with a larger number of gravity-effected rockets.

    As for what I feel could (and should've) be removed: the sniper.
    • The primary counter to a sniper is another sniper (and to a lesser extent a spy).
      A class' counter in the complex rock-paper-scissors mechanic of the game shouldn't be itself, it causes a fragmentation of the gameplay if snipers end up spending half their time seeking out each other.
    • Nothing you can do about them. If there is a sniper between you and your objective, there's not a whole lot you can do since they are out of your effective range. Any other class-vs-class encounter will usually have a chance of either side to win the fight.
    • 1-hit-kills are never fun for the recipient. This can stretch across any game, losing in fight can be fun, not having the fight and just dying can't. This is exacerbated by the point above, there being little you can do about a sniper. (crits can be dodged, stickies removed, spys checked...)
    • I feel the sniper's role of picking off important targets is better left to the spy. A good/lucky spy better at it, they can take out whole groups faster than snipers. It's more balanced as the spy runs a much higher risk while doing so, and deservedly so when hitting "important" targets like medics. The spy has more counters readily available, none of which are another spy, reinforcing the team rock-paper-scissors.
    • I think they would be the least missed in a teamplay experience. How often have you thought to yourself "this team needs a sniper" when the reason wasn't because the enemy had one? Now how often have you needed one of the other eight classes? I bet that, individually, you've needed the other eight more than the sniper, and the reason for almost every one was because of a different class on the enemy team.

    I'm glad you brought this up, now that I have it all typed out I can just link to it next time I get in this discussion :p
     
  4. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    "Damn, the other team has three heavies and they are absolutely rolling us, huh, we have no snipers."
    My thought yesterday <_<

    Sniper counters heavies...large numbers of heavies that spies simply can not consistently control. As for countering sniper...you just need to shoot something...anything at them to throw off their aim. The slightly nick knocks off a snipers aim...

    but meh, id say the scout is the most useless. (I never play ctf maps so perhaps my view is a bit convoluted and focused on the dustbowl gametype) The primary role of the scout is to be an irritant to the other team...I simply can't see an irritant being a vital gameplay strategy
     
  5. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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  6. FaTony

    FaTony Banned

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    Valve achieved balance.