thats like asking who invented meme's.
Is cp_orange salvagable?
- Thread starter Aki
- Start date
thats like asking who invented meme's.
Orange is surely a fucked up map.
But a better question is why don't the folks around here understand why maps like orange are so popular? All the tutorials and highlander playoffs in the world and nobody plays our maps! Few of the mapmakers here get played, and none more than various incarnations of orange.
Its not constructive to just agree with everybody cause they're experts. The vast majority of people are NOT stupid with bad taste. The popularity of a given idea is important to consider, even if the idea is somewhat bad. Likewise something that is unpopular is not bad just because of its obscurity.
Tf2 has become the World of Warcraft of online fps. It seems bitter to complain about new weapon drops and crappy levels. A better use of this community would be to run more custom map servers. If you browse the server lists its always the same levels! orange and badlands and 2fort. Even the best DIY levels don't get played. I havent seen one of those dynamic payload maps in ages.
The success of orange should be used as a lesson in what kills a better map, not as a rallying cry for a bunch of sour grapes mustache hat compu-hipsters.
hydragorgon
But a better question is why don't the folks around here understand why maps like orange are so popular? All the tutorials and highlander playoffs in the world and nobody plays our maps! Few of the mapmakers here get played, and none more than various incarnations of orange.
Its not constructive to just agree with everybody cause they're experts. The vast majority of people are NOT stupid with bad taste. The popularity of a given idea is important to consider, even if the idea is somewhat bad. Likewise something that is unpopular is not bad just because of its obscurity.
Tf2 has become the World of Warcraft of online fps. It seems bitter to complain about new weapon drops and crappy levels. A better use of this community would be to run more custom map servers. If you browse the server lists its always the same levels! orange and badlands and 2fort. Even the best DIY levels don't get played. I havent seen one of those dynamic payload maps in ages.
The success of orange should be used as a lesson in what kills a better map, not as a rallying cry for a bunch of sour grapes mustache hat compu-hipsters.
hydragorgon
I think I can try to give and answer by comparing orange to cp_5gorge, which is the only 5cp map i can remember so far 
P)
5gorge has quite large distances between the cps, so when you die it's a long way back to combat. Orange has short ways and it's easy to get back imo.
5gorge has quite many corners, making it easy to camp there. Orange makes camping really hard due to the line of sight.
It is hard to find cps on 5gorge for beginers, even while there are signs. Orange has easily recignizable cps.
And, finally Orange has a simple layout any allows really weird things because of its easy construction (such as getting on the spawn roofs).
I think these are the main reasons while orange is popular as hell.
I personally enjoy it too, but I also like quality maps made by real pros.
PS: To be honest, the new map sd_doomsday is really hard to play due to the many ways and bad navigation possibilities.
P)5gorge has quite large distances between the cps, so when you die it's a long way back to combat. Orange has short ways and it's easy to get back imo.
5gorge has quite many corners, making it easy to camp there. Orange makes camping really hard due to the line of sight.
It is hard to find cps on 5gorge for beginers, even while there are signs. Orange has easily recignizable cps.
And, finally Orange has a simple layout any allows really weird things because of its easy construction (such as getting on the spawn roofs).
I think these are the main reasons while orange is popular as hell.
I personally enjoy it too, but I also like quality maps made by real pros.
PS: To be honest, the new map sd_doomsday is really hard to play due to the many ways and bad navigation possibilities.
Orange x is a map that has filled a niche role that exists in all FPS games.
Mindless deathmatch.
While playing orange x you have no desire to win or lose the game, it can go on forever for all you care.
The map has just enough brushwork complexity to maintain a 5cp gamemode facade that people can "play" around.
However, the real goal for the people playing is to kill each other, not to capture the points.
It got popular because it filled this role very early.
It remains popular because a substantial number of people still desire that kind of gaming experience. And server owners aren't going to switch to something new now.
There is almost nothing for a level designer to learn from, or discuss/analyze about orange x.
The gameplay that tf2 was built, designed and balanced around did not include a orange x type battleground.
When you play orange x, you're not playing TF2. You're playing something that looks, feels and sounds like tf2, but you're not actually playing TF2 the way it was intended to be played as a game.
A subset of TF2 players don't want a balanced and engaging experience. They want mindless deathmatch, and orange x servers give them that, it is that easy.
Mindless deathmatch.
While playing orange x you have no desire to win or lose the game, it can go on forever for all you care.
The map has just enough brushwork complexity to maintain a 5cp gamemode facade that people can "play" around.
However, the real goal for the people playing is to kill each other, not to capture the points.
It got popular because it filled this role very early.
It remains popular because a substantial number of people still desire that kind of gaming experience. And server owners aren't going to switch to something new now.
There is almost nothing for a level designer to learn from, or discuss/analyze about orange x.
The gameplay that tf2 was built, designed and balanced around did not include a orange x type battleground.
When you play orange x, you're not playing TF2. You're playing something that looks, feels and sounds like tf2, but you're not actually playing TF2 the way it was intended to be played as a game.
A subset of TF2 players don't want a balanced and engaging experience. They want mindless deathmatch, and orange x servers give them that, it is that easy.
I'd go as far and say, orange it's popular because it's terrible.
A good chunk of combat will be completely braindead, point and click sniping.
Many snipers are always a welcome prey to spies, and surprise, we got the two most overplayed pub classes covered. Add one engineer building at spawn, and you got cp_orange in a nutshell. (Plus occasional scouts, leading to more rage-engineering).
It encourages the kind of pointless deathmatch with the most popular classes which pub servers love, often paired with instant respawn. And the absurdly long cap times of the map make playing the objective utterly useless anyway.
The average orange map is also extremely minimalistic, 'cause its purpose doesn't require a complex layout. So it's very easy to set up just another clone with some added tunnels/sniper towers/elevators etc, with little to zero effort. Which is why it's also a popular type of map to create. Why bother investing huge efforts into a map when you can make a fairly popular one by editing orange_3x ?
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