Interesting observation

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Grim Tuesday, May 3, 2010.

  1. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

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    OK, so at the begening of the CTF contest, many mappers were trying to put a twist on CTF. Maybe an invade, or bring to the middle type of thing. However, as the contest draws to close, we see that in fact, most of these modes are reverting to standard CTF. Why do you guys thing that this is? Dont just say 'hurr durr, normal ctf iz better gaiz'
     
  2. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

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    I think most new players can't grasp the concept, without the map maker explicitly saying so before it starts. There isn't really a good way of explaining it.
     
  3. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    hurr durr, normal ctf iz better gaiz
     
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  4. drp

    aa drp

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    probably a case of 'easier said, than done'
     
  5. Passerby

    Passerby L2: Junior Member

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    easier said than done like drepper said and that map makers were seeing confused players during playtesting
     
  6. Jakkarra

    Jakkarra L4: Comfortable Member

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    It's an unfortunate side-effect of the playerbase, they are used to certain modes and ways of going about them.

    It's hard for some people to adapt to new modes and ways of playing said modes. it'd be nice if this werent true, but it is.

    Anyway, many of the "Twists" Were a bit gimmicky really, and were fairly needless. Some of them were pretty nice, though.
     
  7. Passerby

    Passerby L2: Junior Member

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    it is what was nice about the TFC community when it was still strong.

    the player base was pretty open to new gametypes.
     
  8. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    from what I've seen, invade simply doesn't work.
    and its very hard to come out with an other variant.

    I believe this contest has been the trickyest... or you stick to the standard ctf that barely works in comp or you try to pull off a variant and fail at it.
     
  9. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    The "twists" you speak of, as Jakkarra said, have been more gimmicks than anything, and ended up ruining gameplay more than they improved it. (Such is the nature of the gimmick).

    most of the modes have been invade, and as far as i can tell, most of the invade modes have stayed invade. The only reason why some have changed is because of a lack of support for that gamemode. A lack of announcer sounds, I/O commands and generally proper "flag" functionailty has put authors of persuing invade as a mode of choice. Opting for a simpler, less ambitious map.
     
  10. Rikka

    Rikka L5: Dapper Member

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    Invade is the only one of the gimmicks that has stuck, and some of the entries have put it to good use.

    And while it a problem with the TF2 community that they don't deal with changes to the base game modes well without big tags in the browser explaining its a modded server, most of the gimmicks weren't really thought out. Just mappers hoping random guesses would fix CTF.
     
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  11. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    My thoughts on the CTF contest in general:

    Yes this was a copy-paste from another thread but my opinion on this contest still stands!.
     
  12. Rikka

    Rikka L5: Dapper Member

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    I think 6v6 gamedays got killed by bad timing. We got the competitive servers right when gameday was in a bad slump from too many maps that could have had their flaws identified from a quick compile and run around in TF2 and contestants pumping out alphas nearly daily. At the same time we were all having a raging hard-on for impromptu testing and for the three people using them the competitive testing was going awesome as well. I think everyone assumed that momentum would just keep building up, when really it's simmered down since then.
     
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  13. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

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    what is this "invade" you speak of?
    what are the other twists?

    i really liked ctf_deliverance. that was fun.
     
  14. Grim Tuesday

    aa Grim Tuesday

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    Invade means taking a flag from the center to the base, the way deliverance is now


    Other twists included taking a flag to the center (destroying it)

    Taking a flag to another flag

    Taking a flag along a cart-path


    Those are the only I can think of off the top of my head...
     
  15. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=11055

    "Invade" isn't a gimmick. The ctf mode was even included/supported in the flag entity options, it's just that a proceeding update broke most of the alternative modes and Valve never got around to fixing it (although some features were added as a result of requests to valve from this community regarding this contest, particularly related to the functionality of "Invade").

    As for 6vs6, the community wasn't prepared for what that entailed nor was the competitive scene prepared for the number of entries and thirdly contest operators wern't prepared for the reaction and response of/to this contest from either side (authors and players). Maps havn't got the testing they needed due to a lack of preperation which in turn lead to a lack of player testers, lack of feedback and lack of involvement from the actual competitive scene; which has been eratic and inconsistant at best.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  16. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    I've had enough real-life stuff going on that I haven't been following the contest at all... But what about CTF with a control point that has map side-effects?

    I think I had a pretty good proof-of-concept with ctf_spring. About the only rough edge to it is that you have to do a bit of hackery to get the number-of-captures showing in the HUD.
     
  17. Passerby

    Passerby L2: Junior Member

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    and the invade gametype outdates tf2 there were a ton of qwtf and tfc maps with this style of gameplay.

    but i would be really instrested to see how either style security ctf map would work in tf2.

    where you have to control a point to get access to the flag or control a point to open additinal routes to the flag.
     
  18. Nutomic

    Nutomic L11: Posh Member

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    I could imagine the problem being the low player number of only 6, which makes it hard to split that team.
     
  19. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    I have seen this done before and the problem is that is splits the objectives up too much and its still not hard to get the intel and defend the point and protect your own intel if need be. However, this could have also been due to poor map design.

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